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pictsidhe

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I'm currently eating herring in canola oil. I drain the oil. There's one walmart many miles away that has herring in tomato. I clean them out when passing. I'm not a big fan of sardines, but they are just as good for you. In the uk, it was mackerel in tomato sauce.
I stay away from fish in high omega 6 oils and sauces with any of my 'bad' veg. Onion I can detect at minute levels...
My blood pressure was causing concern when I was veggie, till about 8 years ago. It went down to athlete level after several years of fish therapy.
 

Turd Ferguson

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I also know that all nutrients are not created equal, in the case of iron, your cells need the type of iron found in meat, not vegies... the compound is NOT the same... basically an all vegetable diet is sure to create a nutritional deficiency of some type.
What you are referring to is heme iron which is found in blood and muscle tissue. While it absorbs more readily than non-heme iron that predominates in plants it will increase the risk of cancer, stroke, heart disease, and metabolic syndrome. Human cells don't need it; I don't eat heme iron and I'm doing just fine. Have no iron deficiency and I have it checked annually. The only micro nutrient that might run short in a all plant diet is B12 because B12 is produced from bacteria in poop, which is not a plant. Otherwise plants are so nutrient dense it's impossible to end up with a nutritional deficiency.


I know everyone has an opinion, but I know what has worked!!!
The challenge is to have it work without ending your life prematurely and statistically the numbers are just not there. Maybe you'll luck out and be the one in a million but I'm putting the odds in my favor as much as possible. The Standard American Diet is killing people by the millions every yr. I watched my own family members die from it because it includes too much saturated fats, processed foods, carcinogenic meats* and lack of fiber. The SAD diet is lacking and excessive at the same time which has resulted in a population full of overweight malnourished people.
 

pictsidhe

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While we seem to differ on which foodstuffs are bad for you, we do seem to share the view that the SAD diet has something quite wrong with it.

I've been looking at what healthy, long lived people eat. As others have noticed, they aren't usually overweight. I've noticed ye olde meat + 2 veg is very popular with 80, 90, 100 year olds. Moderate portions.
 

Aerowerx

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...I've noticed ye olde meat + 2 veg is very popular with 80, 90, 100 year olds. Moderate portions.
If you look at those who are documented to live 110+ years, you will find that the majority of them lived in times and/or places that would be considered "primitive rural" compared to our modern know-it-all North American urban culture.

Maybe we should all move to Nepal and become farmers?
 

pictsidhe

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Yes.
Pacific islanders: fish, rice, misc veg.
Himalayans and Andeans: goat/sheep and veg.
Their lifespans are decreasing, possibly due to modernisation of their diets.
 

rbrochey

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My dad was born in 1890 and died in 1990. He was from Altoona PA and was a really smart man and taught me more things than I can list. We moved onto a farm in western PA in 1960s and we would walk through the fields of wild growth and forests (350 acres) and he would point to things and say "eat that when it before it gets too high, it will help your digestion" on and on. He would eat red meat, ever, but white like pork absolutely. One of his favorite things was a sort of salad which your first fry a pound of bacon, then, using the bacon fat, add endive, fresh onion, a cup of sugar and vinegar ... there you have it. But he told me all illness begins in your stomach and you should only eat things that you can digest easily, red meat not being one of them... and eat a bowl of cereal as a bedtime snack. Oh and top you day off with a medicinal shot of peach brandy

Then again, he lived in a time of pre corporate poisoned food distribution. We have our own hens, 4 of them and they roam around and are fed only non gmo and certified organic chicken food and the eggs are amazing (if you're into chickens get Rhode Island Reds)...

Maybe we should have a round table discussion at Osh this year and exchange recipes when we get bored with topics like the best wing design in the last one hundred years...
 

Turd Ferguson

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I think Little Scrapper mentioned "blue zones" earlier, well, here they are:

5 Places Where People Live the Longest and Healthiest Lives:

Sardinia, Italy...
Okinawa, Japan. ...
Nicoya, Costa Rica. ...
Loma Linda, Calif., U.S.A. ...
Ikaria, Greece


Sardinia, Italy. A largely plant-based diet, daily physical activity and familial closeness have given this Blue Zone the highest concentration of male centenarians in the world. ...

Okinawa, Japan has consumed a diet centered around sweet potatoes for centuries. They do include fish in their diet but less than 5% of their diet is fish (the yellow pixel in blue sky photo)

Loma Linda, California has the highest concentration of Seven Day Adventist in the US who refrain from eating animal products, including dairy. They have been the subject of a number of dietary studies regarding their eating habits.

Nicoya Peninsula, Costa Ricans eat a diet of squash, sweet potatoes, beans, fruits and grains. In the last 50 yrs, white rice has replace squash as the staple food (low carb gurus will tell you white rice turns into sugar and will make you fat. Hummm....maybe that is just not true?)

Ikaria, Greece. A Mediterranean diet that is mostly fruits, vegetables and whole grains. They do use olive oil (which is bad) but it's the yellow pixel in the blue sky picture. Mediterranean diet is healthy despite the use of olive oil, not because of it.

So it seems when 80% (or more) of a persons calories come from eating carbohydrates in whole form (not fragmented through processing) longevity increases. That is a good thing because you can be around to fly your airplane longer or in Chopper Girl's case, have your flying circus show for a longer period of time.

There doesn't seem to be a population or group of people anywhere in the world that thrives on a low carb and/or high fat and/or high protein diet. Please correct me if that is not true.
 

rbrochey

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Well, like politics, it's not easy to reach a consensus about the dietary needs of our disappearing species... but the least healthy looking people I've ever seen are the ones hovering over the lettuce bins at the health food stores. Maybe moderation in all things.
 

Little Scrapper

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Well, like politics, it's not easy to reach a consensus about the dietary needs of our disappearing species... but the least healthy looking people I've ever seen are the ones hovering over the lettuce bins at the health food stores. Maybe moderation in all things.
Well, we do know a few things. We take a bulk of the people who get cancer and look at the lifestyle they lead and the foods they consume and quite a few conclusions can be drawn.

A bias in thinking kills more people than any other factor. I had health issues so I read literature. I studied actual studies. My life depended on it so I took a unbiased look at everything and did the things I didn't want to do but I trusted the research.

Do you really think I wanted to give up pizza, steak, gravy, oils, bacon, hamburgers, cheese? Heck no, I loved them I was an addict.

Research clearly and overwhelmingly links this garbage to cancer and heart disease. If you don't think that research is right feel free to roll the dice. We all make choices.

I want to fly in my 90's man. I really really do. So I will break my bias and do the things I don't want to do. That's where growth comes from.

Turns out, not only am I healthier but I feel like I'm in my 20's. I actually think I feel better at 46 than I did in my 20's. My big goal is to now quality for the Boston Marathon and a plant based diet will help me achieve thesee goals in hopefully the next couple of years. 5 years ago I couldn't run to the mailbox.
 

Aerowerx

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Interesting anecdote...

Back when "meat" became a bad word, someone had done a study on different diets. They went to some Mediterranean island and found the people healthy and active. Their diet included a large proportion of fish.

This fact got written into the report and eventually a government recommendation to eat more fish.

What the report didn't mention is that the researcher went to the island during Lent! As soon as Lent was over the people went back to eating their "meat".

Draw your own conclusion as to the validity of diet recommendations.
 

rbrochey

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Well, we do know a few things. We take a bulk of the people who get cancer and look at the lifestyle they lead and the foods they consume and quite a few conclusions can be drawn.

A bias in thinking kills more people than any other factor. I had health issues so I read literature. I studied actual studies. My life depended on it so I took a unbiased look at everything and did the things I didn't want to do but I trusted the research.

Do you really think I wanted to give up pizza, steak, gravy, oils, bacon, hamburgers, cheese? Heck no, I loved them I was an addict.

Research clearly and overwhelmingly links this garbage to cancer and heart disease. If you don't think that research is right feel free to roll the dice. We all make choices.

I want to fly in my 90's man. I really really do. So I will break my bias and do the things I don't want to do. That's where growth comes from.

Turns out, not only am I healthier but I feel like I'm in my 20's. I actually think I feel better at 46 than I did in my 20's. My big goal is to now quality for the Boston Marathon and a plant based diet will help me achieve thesee goals in hopefully the next couple of years. 5 years ago I couldn't run to the mailbox.
I don't disagree with you at all. My cancer was traced to to agent orange in Vietnam, not pizza. And I watch what I eat, like you, and I think you're doing the right thing. I don't believe there's a "right" diet for everyone, it's more what's right for you. I'll be cheering you on at the Boston Marathon! How about making your mini-max electric?
 

Turd Ferguson

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Isn't moderation just a "feel-good" term? I mean how would you tell someone to portion their macronutrients so as to be in moderation? It's kinda like one of those march for the cure causes. Marching doesn't have a measurable effect, it's just a feel good action that convinces one they are fighting the good fight like a true warrior.

There is really no need to guess about what is best in diet and nutrition. Take someone with no biases, show them the data and they could immediately see the best alternative. I was enormously biased and strongly opposed to giving up meat and dairy but it was pure stupidity for me to continue ignoring the volumes of evidence. Oh, there is plenty of conflicting evidence but I found enjoyment in picking apart the BS claims as my knowledge increased, lol. Education is a good thing.
 

Turd Ferguson

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Draw your own conclusion as to the validity of diet recommendations.
It's no secret that a study can be designed to prove any hypothesis. That's one reason to be skeptical of any industry funded study. In my PB nutrition course, the first thing they teach is when reading a study, read the disclosure statement and find out who funded it. Then try to identify what they are trying to prove and finally look at the process to see if standard protocol was followed.
 

Pops

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We are not clones of each other and each person is different in there body chemistry to a certain extent. One size does not fit all. I have tried to eat a well balance diet as much as I can all of my life. I don't like red meat but I force myself to eat a little once in a while and same for broccoli and carrots but I love all other greens. Best part of summer is fresh vegetables out of the garden. I raised 150 heritage tomato plants that I have been growing for several years with 1-1 1/2 lb tomatoes. I have 3 large raised beds and my daughter has 7 raised beds and she just planted 50 tomato plants and I gave 50 to my neighbor. Also raise lettuce, onions, strawberries, Apples, etc. Same for my daughter and she also raises chickens, turkeys and keeps our ref full of good eggs, no the store bought fake eggs. She just butchered 9 chickens the last couple days.
I have been building a 22'x 27' green house and need to finish it this summer. Each fall I plant tomatoes in 5 gal buckets and grow them in my hanger inside the patio door that faces south. They are grown in vermiculite and a pump waters the plants 20 minutes every 8 hours with the food in the water. The plants grow up to the top of my 12' walls and have tomatoes most of the winter. I have 2 more 6' patio doors that I would like to install in the wall so I can grow more each winter. My solar system is outside of the wall so I don't have room to any more.
 

billyvray

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Pops, I'm pretty certain that I (and others on here) would love to see some pics of your hangar, garden, solar power system, etc if you would ever mind shooting pics and posting them on here.

Bill
 

pictsidhe

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Biased studies? Hell yes.
Anyone been to France? They have a lower than average incidence of obesity there. Lots of healthy people.
They have the highest intake of saturated fat in Western Europe.
They have the lowest incidence of coronary heart disease and stroke in Western Europe.
From that, we can deduce that the French diet and lifestyle, as a whole, is not a terrible one.
We would be taking a bit of a leap to point at say, red wine which the French drink a lot of, and claim it extends life.

Ancel Keys left data from many countries out of his famous 'saturated fat' study. France was one of them. That studies findings are now deemed unreliable by the UK, and other countries are pondering its value.
 

rbrochey

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Biased studies? Hell yes.
Anyone been to France? They have a lower than average incidence of obesity there. Lots of healthy people.
They have the highest intake of saturated fat in Western Europe.
They have the lowest incidence of coronary heart disease and stroke in Western Europe.
From that, we can deduce that the French diet and lifestyle, as a whole, is not a terrible one.
We would be taking a bit of a leap to point at say, red wine which the French drink a lot of, and claim it extends life.

Ancel Keys left data from many countries out of his famous 'saturated fat' study. France was one of them. That studies findings are now deemed unreliable by the UK, and other countries are pondering its value.

Count me in on the red wine, and from studies I've done (and I've done a lot) Pinot Noir is the choice for a long life... Best in the US comes from Oregon. Oh and as one
of my doctors told, don't touch white, it's like drinking sugar.
 
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