Braced mid-wing landing gear

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cluttonfred

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As our longtime members already know, I have a thing for old French designs and have often thought the Farman F.455 Moustique III/Super Moustique would be a great inspiration for a retro open-cockpit two-seater with VW power: Interest in a modern incarnation of the Farman F.455 Moustique?

Essentially, it would be like a plus-sized TEAM MiniMax with side-by-side seating for two and a largely exposed VW engine. I suspect I would go with V-strut bracing rather than wires, though I could see an argument for V-struts below and wires above to reduce landing loads on the struts and retain the vintage feel. My question here is about the combination of wing bracing and landing gear.
farman f455 le bourget 1 feb 2014 - 4.jpg farman f455 le bourget 1 feb 2014 - 2.jpg
The original straight axle is not ideal for brakes, which I would like to have, and I also want to keep some sort of springing to the gear even if it's just bungee wraps. Right now my thought is rigid X-strut bracing for the bottom pylons (where the wire bracing is now) and maybe bent half axles hinged from the intersection of the X.
Untitled presentation (2).jpg
Does anyone have any better suggestions or historical examples of how to work this out relatively simply?

Cheers,

Matthew
 

Dana

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Maybe look at how it was done on the Ryan ST replica?
 

cluttonfred

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Thanks, Erkki, but even with the split axle the MiniMax gear is completely rigid with shock absorption solely from the tires. That seems workable but not ideal as a plane gets larger and heavier. This would be a two-seat microlight/LSA type so about 450-500 kg (990-1100 lb) gross weight.
super moustique from below.jpg
The simplest thing to do would be to keep it exactly as the Farman is made, with X-wire bracing between the two parallel spreader bars and the axle above the front bar, but hinging the half-axles at the middle of the spreader bar.

Thanks, Dana, I'll look for what I can find on the original and replica Ryan ST gear, though I suspect it will be more complex and/or difficult to make than I would like.

Of course, another option would be to design a cantilever wing or a single-strutted wing like Souricette and eliminate the struts and wires to the lower pylon altogether. That would make it easier to have both a retro version and a more modern enclosed version.
souricette cropped.jpg
 

TFF

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Ryan ST/PT22 or Gee Bee Z and 1and 2 style is the option really. If you don’t the wings will flap, and that is bad. The gear is past the wires or struts. The wheel pants hide the magic. As for wires and struts, the wires will only be for looks really and drag if you put struts on.
 

cluttonfred

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Here is a nice pic and drawing of the Ryan gear, it does seem like a simplified version could be done with a leading (not trailing) link gear on a pair of rigid tripods that also anchor the bracing wires or struts. Rubber disks in compression or even scooter suspension parts might work as a lighter, simpler, and cheaper alternative to oleos. Of course, at this point it almost seems like I should go with a low wing for a more 1930s vibe to the design, but not many side-by-side, open-cockpit monoplanes come to mind.

ryan st landing gear n721r5.jpg ryan-st-3-5-view-july-1962-american-modeler-1500x1047-c.jpg

Ryan ST/PT22 or Gee Bee Z and 1and 2 style is the option really. If you don’t the wings will flap, and that is bad. The gear is past the wires or struts. The wheel pants hide the magic. As for wires and struts, the wires will only be for looks really and drag if you put struts on.
 
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Lois

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Thanks, Erkki, but even with the split axle the MiniMax gear is completely rigid with shock absorption solely from the tires. That seems workable but not ideal as a plane gets larger and heavier. This would be a two-seat microlight/LSA type so about 450-500 kg (990-1100 lb) gross weight...
The 1932 (or so) Popular Mechanics plans for the Pietenpol Air Camper are online. It was about 1000-1000 GW and used unsprung wooden legs.

 

TFF

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Someone built a side by side MiniMax inspired homebuilt in the 90s. Made it into Sport Aviation. No plans. Just a one off.
 

Tiger Tim

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The original straight axle is not ideal for brakes, which I would like to have, and I also want to keep some sort of springing to the gear even if it's just bungee wraps.
Take a look at what the Pietenpol guys are doing to make brakes work on a bungee’d straight axle. Plenty of examples of reliable service there.
 

TFF

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Brakes and a straight axle have no problems. The only consideration is the torque has to be arrested. A Piet can have a floating axel like a WW1 plane which you can not have if the gear is flight structure. There is plenty in Ron W’s Flybaby website.
 

Fighting 14

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Disregard that. My computer just sabotaged me. There is a good video of the only Sport Wing flying on You Tube, He is in New England. I will try to copy the link again. Sorry.
 

ragflyer

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With landing gear acting as anchor to flying wires, shocks would be a challenge. Breaks though should not be a problem. Flybabies have a similar set up- breaks but no shocks beyond the tires. That said, I am not convinced you need shocks. I am sure Ron W has thoughts to share on this.
 
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