Basic Configuration for a "Safe" airplane

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rotax618

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Yes BJC, I wholeheartedly agree that it is only training that will reduce accidents in the current fleet, and yes it will take possibly years to design some of the dangerous traits out of sportsplanes, but as Marco Polo said “The longest journey is started with a single step.”
 

TFF

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Because you have the checkbook doesn’t mean you have the skills. That tends to be a bigger problem. Doesn’t matter what type of plane if it is more than you can handle. There was a guy building a Glasair 1 and he had a hard time flying a 150. He was not near ready to fly it if he finished it. Still in parts right now. Lots of high performance planes that get built have this ownership issue. Plane too hard to fly for the skill and it sits for years until it is sold after the owner passing. The old guy at my airport had a Knight Twister. He said he flew it about 100 hours. I have only seen pictures. He let a buddy fly it. The buddy couldn’t land it. After some amount of time trying, he bailed out. !!! Come on. The church people who crashed in Nashville. They had the money for the jet but not the skill. He was not seeking the skill either. He got a minimum check ride and a couple of weeks later he is flying single pilot in a jet he probably needs help starting. With time he could have easily mastered it, but you can’t let it get away. You learn so that your worst day out there is still a success.

Better design is always wanted. Better design should not mean less pilot input but input that is better used. Aerobatic planes are the easiest to fly once you can fly. They do what you ask. The big flag is if it didn’t do what you wanted; what don’t you know how to do? Trash in trash out computing.
 

challenger_II

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I know the Yankee, too... On a pre-buy flight, I was going to stall the Beast. The pilot (not the owner/seller) with me was almost beside himself at the prospect. Told him no stall, no sale.
He was quite nervous through three full stalls.
And, yes: the AA1 does drop the left wing, in a stall! :)

Bingo. I know the Yankee I learned in was placarded as spins prohibited.
 

Bigshu

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I know the Yankee, too... On a pre-buy flight, I was going to stall the Beast. The pilot (not the owner/seller) with me was almost beside himself at the prospect. Told him no stall, no sale.
He was quite nervous through three full stalls.
And, yes: the AA1 does drop the left wing, in a stall! :)
The original Yankee with the speed wing was sporty in a stall. I remember once early on, my CFI didn't think I was decisive enough in my recoveries ( I was kind of barely going beyond relaxing control pressure, and easy on the throttle), So on one, just as I decided to give him the push he was looking for on the yoke, he decided to assist, and we ended up almost vertical, clipboard and loose stuff flew around behind the seats. Returned to a normal attitude, and we just looked at each other. He said I seemed to have a handle on recovery from a stall.
 

Bigshu

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The Yankee failed spin certification because it couldn't be recovered after six turns. A stall with a wing drop is not cheating death as far as I am concerned.
I love flying Grumman light aircraft. My dad's last plane was a Traveler. I'd own one now, but I'm too healthy for the AA1 useful load, and the AA5s are busy pricing themselves out of the market for me.
 

Dan Thomas

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I believe the stated reason was that they were seeing spin related crashes during training than they were in post checkride flying. Not that their statistical analysis was necessarily valid...
Training spins are done in Canada all the time. We don't see spin-training crashes. Last one I can recall was a 150 that had its rudder lock hard over during the spin entry, making the spin unrecoverable. Must be over 20 years ago. Canada brought out an AD on the rudder travel stops; the original design would allow the bellcrank stop plate to ride over the head of the stop bolt and latch there if the rudder hinges were worn enough. Wonderful maintenance it was getting. I tried to get ours to latch (in the shop!) and saw that those hinges would have to be really, really badly worn. The FAA eventually brought out an AD for the US on it.
 

Dan Thomas

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Yup. But as they say, “A pilot certificate is a license to learn.” No reason to stay ignorant just because of the FAA. Many E-AB can be spun. Pilots can get that LODA tomorrow, and start spin training this Saturday.
Best thing is to go find taildragger training in a Citabria. As part of that, you can get stalls and spins if the CFI is competent. One finds out what life is like in airplanes that aren't deliberately designed to be stodgy to try to protect the pilot from himself. After training like that, 172s and Cherokees are way too boring.
 

challenger_II

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True that! I just found it amusing the Seller's pilot thought the World would end. :)

The Yankee is an extremely fun machine to fly, but like any other machine, you have to know
its capabilities and shortfalls, and respect them.

The Yankee failed spin certification because it couldn't be recovered after six turns. A stall with a wing drop is not cheating death as far as I am concerned.
 
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Riggerrob

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Dear TFF,
The same thing happens with boats. It does not matter if they are powered by sail or diesel.
Buddy buys a boat and putters around the harbor a bit, but the second time outside the harbor, he plans a week long voyage but encounters rough seas. The nasty weather scares him so badly that they boat collects seaweed in the marina for a few more years before he sells it at a loss.
 
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Victor Bravo

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The Yankee is an extremely fun machine to fly, but like any other machine, you have to know
its capabilities and shortfalls, and respect them.
^^^^^^^ This^^^^^^^^
I was far more worried about the Yankee's marginal flaps than I was about it accidentally spinning me to my death. But then I also respected the placard and wasn't out playing with spins in it at all. Pilots of the 108HP Yankee should be worried about the marginal thrust on climb-out far far more than anything else. I was lucky enough to briefly have a 150HP AA-1 with the "fast" wing, and didn't have that issue, but I can easily see that the small engine/fast wing combination could be a problem on a warm day.
 

challenger_II

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I'll save you the mental picture...

She's a BEAST on climb-out, on a hot day! 200fpm was it, and any attempt to coax her would induce a "noticeable" rate of descent... :)
I would say the O-290D would have been a better engine choice, as the increased powered shows up, immediately, and the fuel consumption isn't much more than a 235. 22 gallons usable doesn't go far, with an O-320...
 

BJC

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The Yankee is an extremely fun machine to fly, but like any other machine, you have to know
its capabilities and shortfalls, and respect them.
That is the key to this discussion. Would it still be fun with some of the posited safety mods such as interconnected controls, limited elevator travel, added weight from additional cockpit structure and air bags?


BJC
 

Bigshu

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That is the key to this discussion. Would it still be fun with some of the posited safety mods such as interconnected controls, limited elevator travel, added weight from additional cockpit structure and air bags?


BJC
I don't know how much actual weight increase we're talking about. Re-engineered in such a way, I would expect more power would be part of the picture. There's quite a few out there with an O-320, and added fuel capacity is an available STC as well. Both add weight, but the owners don't seem to mind. I wonder if just the airbags or just the safety cage, with a larger engine would be a solid performer. If you look at the power loading, it's better than contemporary two seat trainers like the Tomahawk and Skipper. The wing loading is higher for the AA1.
 
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