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Richard6

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Johnny Reyes who was flying the helicopter above a Clovis neighborhood, 550 feet in the air.
A little different story here:Fresno Co. Sheriff's helicopter almost hit by drone | News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KMPH



Why wasn't Johnny obeying FAR § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or on the surface—

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.

According to the story on KMPH: Around noon Wednesday, the Fresno County Sheriff's Officer helicopter crew known as Eagle One was traveling to Shaver Lake to survey snow levels.

Johnny should have been flying at over 1000 ft and most likely would have never even seen the drone.
 

bmcj

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A little different story here:Fresno Co. Sheriff's helicopter almost hit by drone | News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KMPH



Why wasn't Johnny obeying FAR § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or on the surface—

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.

According to the story on KMPH: Around noon Wednesday, the Fresno County Sheriff's Officer helicopter crew known as Eagle One was traveling to Shaver Lake to survey snow levels.

Johnny should have been flying at over 1000 ft and most likely would have never even seen the drone.
You are citing the wrong rule. The applicable rule here would be paragraphs (d) and (d)(1). The Sheriff's helicopter was in compliance with the rules.
(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or on the surface—

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA
The map below shows the approximate location (marked with a green-red-yellow bullseye NNE of FAT Airport:

FAT chart.jpg
 
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Richard6

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You are citing the wrong rule. The applicable rule here would be paragraphs (d) and (d)(1).
OK, but do we know if Johnny was following the FAA rule:

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

Did you read the link I posted? They were flying to Shaver Lake to survey snow levels. Do you see any snow in the photos accompanying the story's? There was no reason for him to be flying at such a low altitude in that part of the flight.

No. I'm guessing that he was buzzing somebody's house in the area, and like a lot of buzzing incidents, he almost ended up being very sorry.
 

bmcj

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OK, but do we know if Johnny was following the FAA rule:

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

Did you read the link I posted? They were flying to Shaver Lake to survey snow levels. Do you see any snow in the photos accompanying the story's? There was no reason for him to be flying at such a low altitude in that part of the flight.

No. I'm guessing that he was buzzing somebody's house in the area, and like a lot of buzzing incidents, he almost ended up being very sorry.
At the point of conflict, he would have just cleared the airport traffic area, which means that the altitude he was flying at was either requested by him or assigned by ATC.

It is typical for the law enforcement helos to patrol at 500-1,000 ft. I would guess that he maintained a low cruise through that area for 2 reasons...
1) He was opting for a visual patrol enroute (part of his normal responsibilities);
2) He was remaining clear of the Class C airspace above, which (in that area) is used to transition inbound and outbound jet airline flights to and from the north.
 

Richard6

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Plymouth, MN USA
Why wasn't Johnny obeying FAR ....QUOTE]

Seems as if he was. Why wasn't the drone operator complying with the 400 foot AGL rule?


BJC
We don't know. Someone is lying. Who?

According to your earlier post, Johnny could have easily been flying at 1000 ft.

And why are they using a helicopter to measure snow dept? Would that not have been easier done with a pickup and a snowmobile?

In any case, I guess we will not know who was wrong.

Richard
 

Himat

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Seems as if he was. Why wasn't the drone operator complying with the 400 foot AGL rule?

BJC
Are there a requirement for an altimeter in a small inhabited air vehicle?
If not, how much error in judgment of altitude is within reasonable limits?

Even with an onboard altimeter it is not that easy. Is it GPS altitude above chart ground level, difference in GPS altitude ground straight below flying position to flying height, barometric altitude or altitude measured by for example radar or laser that is the limit?
Now if the ground is not completely level, what is the ground level?

Both parties can be "complying" and still be on the same altitude if the measurement is not done the same way to the same reference points.
 

12notes

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We don't know. Someone is lying. Who?
Why does someone have to be lying? The helicopter was at 550 AGL, the drone went above it, there's no statements from the operator that deny this. The drone operator is at fault here.
 

bmcj

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Why does someone have to be lying? The helicopter was at 550 AGL, the drone went above it, there's no statements from the operator that deny this. The drone operator is at fault here.
Also, in other broadcasts here, it is said that the drone owner admitted to being in the wrong.
 

choppergirl

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Funny all this anti- drone talk being a threat to public safety, on the ground and in the air, when weaponized airplanes have been killing people since... 1914... over 100 years...

Oh boy, when the public finds out about that... the days for airplanes... are numbered... :-(

I'd post a related Youtube... but its so hard to pick... one of nuke bombs being dropped; carpet bombing by B-52's; Apache's spitting minigun lead; white phosphorous bombing (Hamburg, Dresden, modern day); fuel oil explosives; puff the magic dragons putting down lead every square meter; A-10 Warthogs spitting depleted uranium tank buster rounds; American WW2 aircraft over europe on a return to base free for all shoot anything that moved... not to mention, civilian GA crashes... like... airshow crashes, helicopter crashes, commercial jet disasters, GA pilot screw ups (Youtube is full of those)...

Lets add up those numbers... and compare them to... drone fatalities. The scale is... millions killed by airplanes... versus... what can be counted on two hands... by civilian drones?

After donating his aircraft design into the public domain for the good of humanity, Santos Dumont commited suicide from despair about the destructive use to which aviation was being put, seeing one plane shoot down another, and feeling guilty about his role as a pioneer of flight... hmmm

All the laws and regulations in the world won't stop the military from using airplanes to kill each other... nor eliminate... accidents... it seems the drones that are doing the majority bulk of the killing are military ones... so maybe disparaging remarks should be focused towards those.

*not a drone pilot*


 

D Hillberg

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very low low low earth orbit
We don't know. Someone is lying. Who?

According to your earlier post, Johnny could have easily been flying at 1000 ft.

And why are they using a helicopter to measure snow dept? Would that not have been easier done with a pickup and a snowmobile?

In any case, I guess we will not know who was wrong.

Richard
A helicopter with crew can service a whole area of weather stations in a few hours not days by truck,
An FAA navaid fueled in minutes via external loaded fuel tank delivered by vertical reference
A helicopter leaves no tracks or require roads to deliver the goods.
 

BJC

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97FL, Florida, USA
Quote Originally Posted by BJC View Post


We don't know. Someone is lying. Who?

According to your earlier post, Johnny could have easily been flying at 1000 ft.

And why are they using a helicopter to measure snow dept? Would that not have been easier done with a pickup and a snowmobile?

In any case, I guess we will not know who was wrong.

Richard
A helicopter with crew can service a whole area of weather stations in a few hours not days by truck,
An FAA navaid fueled in minutes via external loaded fuel tank delivered by vertical reference
A helicopter leaves no tracks or require roads to deliver the goods.
That quote attributed to me actually was posted by Richard6.


BJC
 

D Hillberg

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Messages
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Location
very low low low earth orbit
Funny all this anti- drone talk being a threat to public safety, on the ground and in the air, when weaponized airplanes have been killing people since... 1914... over 100 years...

Oh boy, when the public finds out about that... the days for airplanes... are numbered... :-(

I'd post a related Youtube... but its so hard to pick... one of nuke bombs being dropped; carpet bombing by B-52's; Apache's spitting minigun lead; white phosphorous bombing (Hamburg, Dresden, modern day); fuel oil explosives; puff the magic dragons putting down lead every square meter; A-10 Warthogs spitting depleted uranium tank buster rounds; American WW2 aircraft over europe on a return to base free for all shoot anything that moved... not to mention, civilian GA crashes... like... airshow crashes, helicopter crashes, commercial jet disasters, GA pilot screw ups (Youtube is full of those)...

Lets add up those numbers... and compare them to... drone fatalities. The scale is... millions killed by airplanes... versus... what can be counted on two hands... by civilian drones?

After donating his aircraft design into the public domain for the good of humanity, Santos Dumont commited suicide from despair about the destructive use to which aviation was being put, seeing one plane shoot down another, and feeling guilty about his role as a pioneer of flight... hmmm

All the laws and regulations in the world won't stop the military from using airplanes to kill each other... nor eliminate... accidents... it seems the drones that are doing the majority bulk of the killing are military ones... so maybe disparaging remarks should be focused towards those.

*not a drone pilot*


you are confusing warfare with public safety. Apples and Pineapples. Drones are not the problem---drone "pilots" are the problem uneducated in the standards used to navigate
airspace used by the nonparticipating public. (passengers and ground based public)

An air liner doesn't fly too well with a foded engine. and birds are bad enough going through your wind screen. kites on 1,000+ foot lines suck too.
John Q Dumbsheite will make your day in a bad way------And those LiPo batteries make a nice bang on impact too.
 

12notes

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That quote attributed to me actually was posted by Richard6.


BJC
My reply to that same post did that to me too, I corrected it with an edit. If you look at post #466, it starts with the "Quote=BJC" tag in text before Richard6 quotes you. That screws up the formatting of replies.
 

mcrae0104

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BDU, BJC
its so hard to pick... one of nuke bombs being dropped; carpet bombing by B-52's; Apache's spitting minigun lead; white phosphorous bombing (Hamburg, Dresden, modern day); fuel oil explosives; puff the magic dragons putting down lead every square meter; A-10 Warthogs spitting depleted uranium tank buster rounds; American WW2 aircraft over europe on a return to base free for all shoot anything that moved... not to mention, civilian GA crashes... like... airshow crashes, helicopter crashes, commercial jet disasters, GA pilot screw ups (Youtube is full of those)...

Lets add up those numbers... and compare them to... drone fatalities. The scale is... millions killed by airplanes... versus... what can be counted on two hands... by civilian drones?...

...All the laws and regulations in the world won't stop the military from using airplanes to kill each other... nor eliminate... accidents... it seems the drones that are doing the majority bulk of the killing are military ones... so maybe disparaging remarks should be focused towards those.
You should save your political commentary for another forum, and perhaps have more awareness of those whose ancestors you have insulted. Good luck with your Erector set.

photo.jpg
 
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Pops

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USA.
Over 400 feet AND less than 5 miles from an airport.

What would be the regs for flying my RC on my grass field airport listed as (Private) on the Sectional ? Hard to believed I would be asking this question a few years ago. Whats next?
 
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