Aviation-related life insurance?

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by billyvray, Dec 11, 2019.

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  1. Dec 11, 2019 #1

    billyvray

    billyvray

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    I'm currently not involved in aviation much -other than RC and dreaming/scheming, etc. A primary reason for this is a family concern. My company-provided life insurance have specific clauses regarding not paying out if you are the pilot in command. That used to only be the case if it was something like an ultralight (or FAA-unrecognized aircraft). Therefore, wife is not too keen about me flying, and to be honest, neither am I, even though I know how and when I would fly, something could happen and that would be a financial ruin to the family.
    So, what are options out there for buying life insurance this covers this activity? I would like to include ultralights, but even just PPL or Sport Pilot coverage would be ok. I'm guessing there is, but I haven't found it (quickly and immediately in my 5 minute search, wth), and I'm guessing it'll be expensive. But, I'm curious what you folks do this situation.
     
  2. Dec 11, 2019 #2

    Dana

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  3. Dec 11, 2019 #3

    Derswede

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    Talk to your agent. My policy covers everything, no exclusions. As I have had it for awhile, it will even cover suicide! (I will NOT repeat what my wife said about that!! ) Mine is only a half million, so if your policy is much higher, there may be additional exclusions. Mine is limited as I do not want to tempt my wife......:eek:
     
  4. Dec 11, 2019 #4

    Patrickh99

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    EAA sponsors a life insurance plan, if you are a member. I have a policy for exactly the reasons you state.
     
  5. Dec 11, 2019 #5

    BJC

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    This data is old, but some of it might be relevant.

    One group insurance policy excluded any flying in other than corporate or airline. There was no distinction of piloting or being a passenger. Also excluded were SCUBA diving, sky diving, etc. Outside individual insurance was possible, but it was very expensive.

    A different group insurance policy covered private flying. I would check to see if you can purchase the additional desired coverage as a rider (not certain about that terminology) on the group policy.

    Please also consider that, statistically, more people actually needed good long term disability insurance to provide for their dependents than needed life insurance. That data point is not up to date, but I encourage you to investigate it.


    BJC
     
  6. Dec 11, 2019 #6

    Topaz

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    This. And the other critical thing is coverage for assisted living and/or nursing home care for the end of life. Yes, hard to believe, but we're all going to die. The fantasy you have of being capable and vibrant right up until you just "stop" one night is just that - a complete and idiotic fantasy. You're not going to end that way. Barring some kind of accident, modern medicine is going to keep you going right through a slow slide into oblivion, including several years at the end where you can't properly take care of yourself for even basic tasks like keeping the house clean, feeding yourself actual food, or even basic hygiene. You'll slowly lose capability and capacity until you eventually fall, get sick, or otherwise initiate the last few months of terminal decline.

    Yes, that's what's going to happen to you. The wonders of modern medicine make it so. I've been through it twice in the last five years, with my own parents. If you have a kid or kids, they can help make things easier for the first part, but eventually your needs will become so great that they either become your 24/7 support system and forego their own lives completely, or you find a way to ease the load for them.

    Start preparing to spend $3500-$5500 per month in specialty care for the last 2-4 years of your life. Plus medical care. Insurance to cover that is hard to find, especially as you get older. Get old enough, and it's impossible to get. The alternative is to realize that your final 2-4 years will be spent in a Medicare gulag you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. My parents were fortunate. They had me to start with and money enough to find good long-term care until the end. If you're over 40 and haven't started planning for this reality, you're fooling yourself. Truly and completely.

    /rant
     
  7. Dec 11, 2019 #7

    BJC

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    Talk about expensive ... the premiums around here almost doubled from 2018 to 2019.


    BJC
     
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  8. Dec 12, 2019 #8

    Hot Wings

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    In California!? It's about double that here......:(
     
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  9. Dec 12, 2019 #9

    Topaz

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    We found my father a really nice place in Irvine for $5500 per month. Essentially a nice studio apartment with housekeeping, laundry, all food, and activities more inspiring than Bingo and "Swayin' with the Oldies." The only additional care was med passes four times a day. He didn't need full nursing care, which would've been far, far, more expensive. Probably 50% to 100% higher.
     
  10. Dec 12, 2019 #10

    Hot Wings

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    So just assisted living. That makes our rates more similar. 3 years ago full care was $8600/mo and hospice only $200/day.

    There are insurance policies that just cover the expenses until the 8 year waiting period after funding a trust expires.
     
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  11. Dec 12, 2019 #11

    Topaz

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    Sounds about right.
     
  12. Dec 12, 2019 #12

    BJC

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    Here in north central Florida, decent assisted living starts around $6,000 per month. WWW wisdom suggests that the average is lower. My guess is that most states / areas are at least that high for good facilities, except for parts of Alabama, Mississippi, and West Virginia.


    BJC
     
  13. Dec 12, 2019 #13

    Vigilant1

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    Did you mean to say Medicare? As far as I know, Medicare won't cover long-term care (LTC). Medicaid (the program for the indigent) covers LTC (often in facilities that are not very nice), but you have to spend down your assets to a very low level before that happens, which can effectively pauper the surviving spouse. There are ways to structure one's finances to make things less grim, but it is no picnic.

    Often, if a person has long term care insurance or can self-pay for a few years (i.e. pay about $300K over time, today's dollars), a nice facility will accept that and allow the person to remain in the facility once they are on Medicaid, if they last that long. Yes, the average stay in a nursing home is 2 years, but some folks last a lot longer than that. And, often care is required at home for a year or two before moving in to a nursing home.

    There are many who earnestly believe they'll "take matters into their own hands" in these eventualities. But when the time comes, most people still want to see another day, maybe get a visit from the grandkids, and watch Jeopardy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  14. Dec 12, 2019 #14

    Topaz

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    The whole thing is entirely different than anyone expects. Our culture hasn't caught up to reality in this regard yet. I can't tell you how many people with whom I've spoken about this actually think they're just going to live a great life and then pass away in their sleep, or in a hospital after a brief illness.

    Reality is nothing like that for most people today.
     
  15. Dec 12, 2019 #15

    Kyle Boatright

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    I have said for some time that we live better today than "back when" but die worse. The end lasts much longer now, with an ever-dropping quality of life.

    And putting someone in a facility with full time care runs >$200k/yr. if your loved one needs a personal assistant 24/7.
     
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  16. Dec 12, 2019 #16

    Topaz

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    For both of my parents, I was forced to make the decision to "pull the plug." Modern medicine could keep them alive for a very long time more - weeks, months, maybe even longer. But they'd have had to have been in a hospital or ICU situation full-time, 24/7, as barely-conscious lumps of flesh with no "life" whatsoever, slowing declining in misery. And despite how it's shown on TV, "pulling the plug" isn't anything like, "flip a switch and they die in a minute or two." It's a horrific, week-or-more process of watching your loved-one slowly wither away, doped up to the limit with morphine and lost somewhere in the fog until they finally expire.

    On my soapbox: We, as a society, need to deal with the reality of this. We haven't. You're not going to just "pass away," gently, in your sleep some night after playing poker with your buddies. The doctors and hospital will keep you "going", and "going" and "going," only to slowly wither and fade, kept alive by needles and wires, until your kids are forced to make the decision on when the doctors will stop providing care, and maybe even food and water, so as to end your life.

    It's just as horrific as it sounds. "Hey, your parent needs to die now. We can't kill them, so we're going to just stop treating them, including providing food and water. Sign here. Thank you. Oh, and now that we're no longer providing care, you need to take them out of here tomorrow. It's probably going to take several days for them to die." Yeah, it's just like that. I've done it twice. If I've seemed more remote, less warm, and harsher the last few years, now you know why.

    See you guys tomorrow. I'm going to go miss my parents and drink heavily.
     
  17. Dec 12, 2019 #17

    bifft

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    Getting back to the op, both the EAA and AOPA have affiliated insurers. I asked both and for me the AOPA one was a better deal.
     
  18. Dec 12, 2019 #18

    TFF

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    My policy has a rider. Don’t remember how much but not a lot. Yours may not offer one but you might need to ask specifically.
     
  19. Dec 12, 2019 #19

    billyvray

    billyvray

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    thanks for all the good discussion. I'll look into the sources mentioned, including the group policy I'm with, and have food for thought on the long term care thing. Take care folks.
     

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