ATC Privatization Proposed in White House Budget

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rbrochey

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I suppose the silver lining here is that the government is a pendulum and swings right then left then right over and over through the years. If looking at it in a progressive way, it takes two steps forward (progressive) then one step back (regressive) we've entered the later but it will swing the other way in time. I think many problems (ATC included) would do better with a more progressive tax structure. I have believed for a long time that the solution to many infrastructure and other domestic issue would benefit from a flat tax. 15% of gross income no exceptions no deductions. If you earn 100K a year you pay 15K, period. 200K, 30K. Period and on. Taxes could be done on an index card. You wouldn't need Turbo Tax and all that other junk. Hello bridges roads and airstrips!
 

tspear

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I suppose the silver lining here is that the government is a pendulum and swings right then left then right over and over through the years. If looking at it in a progressive way, it takes two steps forward (progressive) then one step back (regressive) we've entered the later but it will swing the other way in time. I think many problems (ATC included) would do better with a more progressive tax structure. I have believed for a long time that the solution to many infrastructure and other domestic issue would benefit from a flat tax. 15% of gross income no exceptions no deductions. If you earn 100K a year you pay 15K, period. 200K, 30K. Period and on. Taxes could be done on an index card. You wouldn't need Turbo Tax and all that other junk. Hello bridges roads and airstrips!
FYI, by definition a flat tax is not a progressive tax structure. It technically is regressive. However, I think only geeks and economists care about the difference. :)

Tim
 

BBerson

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If more grass airstrips were built, there would never be a need for local controllers.
Tower controllers are only needed when all the traffic only has one airport, such as major hubs. Recreational and GA don't need to enter major hubs or be assessed a user fee.
 

rbrochey

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FYI, by definition a flat tax is not a progressive tax structure. It technically is regressive. However, I think only geeks and economists care about the difference. :)

Tim
Okay but I'm using progressive in the context of a society generally moving forward, to improve the lives of all its citizens not just the major income earners ... (corporate group think)
 

tspear

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Okay but I'm using progressive in the context of a society generally moving forward, to improve the lives of all its citizens not just the major income earners ... (corporate group think)
Progressive versus regressive tax structure has nothing to do with how society moves forward. It is only about how taxes are assessed; as in the more you earn the greater the ratio you pay. For example, 0-100K at 15% and 100k+ at 16% is technically a "progressive" tax structure. Not that many "progressives" (the political usage of the term this time) would admit as much; or they would state the tax is not "progressive" enough (back to the economic term).

Tim
 

Vigilant1

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Okay but I'm using progressive in the context of a society generally moving forward, to improve the lives of all its citizens not just the major income earners ... (corporate group think)
The "progressive" political label has nothing to do with "progress." It's just marketing. And a preordained deterministic "scientific course of history" was a mainstay of Soviet propaganda, also unsupported by evidence.
There are many collectivist systems instituted to forcibly take resources from people and give them to others. If "Progressives" want to claim these basket cases of shared misery as their own, that is fine-- and honest. More frequently, they want to say that each >real< case where their concepts failed were only examples of "not doing it right". People aren't insects.
 

Pops

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The "progressive" political label has nothing to do with "progress." It's just marketing. And a preordained deterministic "scientific course of history" was a mainstay of Soviet propaganda, also unsupported by evidence.
There are many collectivist systems instituted to forcibly take resources from people and give them to others. If "Progressives" want to claim these basket cases of shared misery as their own, that is fine-- and honest. More frequently, they want to say that each >real< case where their concepts failed were only examples of "not doing it right". People aren't insects.
Correct as usual . When I grow up I want to be just like you.

Remember almost everything in politics is smoke and mirrors. Its called what its not.
 

rbrochey

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Given current world and national events I will go out on a limb and say I don't think we need to be concerned about much privatization (of the ATC, or much else)... this seems more of a blip. (all hail Groucho Marx and John Lennon) ;)
 

BBerson

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I agree we recreational pilots don't need to be concerned about ATC privatization. Private aviation has slowly declined over past 50 years or so under FAA control. Not likely to change.
 

pictsidhe

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The more complex the system, the more expensive it is to administer. The current system has a flat tax on fuel? Doesn't get much simpler. Start messing with user fees and the admin will make your eyes water. Fuel tax hits GA harder than airlines anyway as GA gets less passenger mpg. GA still chips in even when not using ATC.
Parts of the UK have a flat fee for prescription drugs. Wales scrapped that and gave them out free. The cost? Reduced, the admin savings were greater than the lost revenue.
 

BBerson

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There is a tax on aviation fuel. The airlines also pay a per passenger tax and landing fees.
In Canada, the private pilots that use ATC pay about $65 a year flat rate.
 

rbrochey

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I agree we recreational pilots don't need to be concerned about ATC privatization. Private aviation has slowly declined over past 50 years or so under FAA control. Not likely to change.

I think this is right really... It just keeps declining... Falconar has been trying to sell out for years that I've known about and there isn't a long line of buyers. In the 1980's El Cajon CA had at least 3 flight schools, there might be one left I don't know... but I was there a year or so ago and it was nothing like it used to be. When you consider the average age of builders now, it won't be long till homebuilding is even more of a fringe than it is now... but I can still enjoy it and will as long as I'm around. And it used to be more fun... bunch of grouches lately. Everything black nd white and literal, everything the actual world is not. Lighten up... have fun, most importantly don't take yourself seriously, that's an illness. ;)

"Life, is just a bowl of All-Bran... you wake up every morning and it's there..." (Small Faces)

https://youtu.be/5pPCYlYWO6w

Life in my world this morning!
 
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BBerson

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Yeah, I had a good life in aviation... bought and restored about a dozen airplanes, starting at age 16.
I would like to pass it on to the next generation like I had. But don't think it will happen
 

rbrochey

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Yeah, I had a good life in aviation... bought and restored about a dozen airplanes, starting at age 16.
I would like to pass it on to the next generation like I had. But don't think it will happen
Must be where and when we find our magic. I was about the same age, but in the late 50's my first love was a Cub near Pittsburgh. I'll never forget that plane and it was magic. That love of airplanes never ever left me either. I guess as I've grown older I dislike change more and more and it frustrates (and disappoints me) that generations after mine have moved further away from flying, more intent to experience life through a screen. In the mid 1980's I flew with my fight instructor to Edwards Air Force base and met Dick Rutan and Jeana Yeager prior to their around the world flight. Dick had contacted me about ways to reduce the size and weight of their charts. It was totally voluntary (and they would accept no corporate sponsors) and I was happy to be a very small part of their mission (the charts were reduced using microfilm, remember when this was, very primitive computer days!). I still have my VIP Voyager patch and was invited to the post flight get together in LA but my life got to busy so I had to be content with what I did. At Edwards they had the plane roped off and asked if I wanted to peek inside, (RIGHT!!?) So I got to step up and examine the cockpit. Anyway that magic moment will always be with me. I wish our young people could have similar experiences, and not 'virtual' ones. Oh well.
 
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