ATC Privatization Proposed in White House Budget

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by rbrochey, Mar 16, 2017.

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  1. Jun 8, 2017 #201

    BBerson

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    PT, the proposal is a for non-profit entity.
    There is a logical reason why government entities are less efficient. It is because there is no incentive to be more efficient and reduce cost to stay ahead of competition like private enterprise.
    I don't know what is this proposal is exactly. Clearly not a normal business.
    The FSS is now contracted to Lockheed-Martin, which is a profit corporation. But FSS could have been contracted to a non-profit corporation. The actual ownership of assets could remain government with contractors running things.
    Any number of options.
     
  2. Jun 8, 2017 #202

    rv7charlie

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    A bit over a decade ago (you do the political math), there was a push to give all the government's weather satellites to 'private' companies, 'because they can do it more efficiently'.


    All: Wake up & call your reps/sens in DC.
     
  3. Jun 8, 2017 #203

    rv7charlie

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    How many traffic lights and/or cops in NYC or LA?

    Now, how many traffic lights and/or cops in East Podunk Iowa?

    Airlines, with their hub & spoke networks and the massive congestion they cause, are the reason that ATC exists. Airlines are trying to force a hundred arrows into a 5 shot quiver, & blame FAA for delays. Cities (meaning citizens) refuse to add runway capacity to those 5 shot quivers, and blame FAA for delays. Airlines refuse to equip their a/c with GPS capable of area navigation (yes, any airliner over a decade old is very unlikely to have any GPS on board, except the illegal one in the pilot's flight bag, and the ones in the passengers' phones) and blame FAA for refusing efficient routing (which would be available if they just had GPS on board).

    Without the Airlines, GA could manage just fine with nothing but weather & a few control towers, thank you very much.
     
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  4. Jun 8, 2017 #204

    rv7charlie

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    What saturated 'the system'? (See my earlier post.)
     
  5. Jun 8, 2017 #205

    12notes

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    Reduced cost due to competition will not happen here, because there is no competition with ATC, it is and should be a natural monopoly. You do not want competing ATCs operating in the same airspace. And when a private company has a monopoly, in the vast majority of cases the cost of services goes up and the quality of services goes down. None of the free market efficiencies apply to a monopoly, which makes the "benefits" of this proposal vanishingly small, and the potential downsides huge.
     
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  6. Jun 8, 2017 #206

    rv7charlie

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    Common 'Ayn Rand' argument, widely believed (even by me, when I was a child) but just not true. Examples?
    Don't like USPS? Try mailing a letter in, for instance, Germany. Last time I saw numbers, roughly three times the cost, and the farthest it could go is a couple hundred miles. USPS is the lowest cost carrier *in the world*.
    Don't like your health insurance company? Did you know that Medicare gets more bang for its buck than *any* other insurer in the USA?
    Think private companies are more efficient? They are not. Think prices will drop? They will not. But you can bet the spread between actual costs and gross receipts will go up. Remember the auto makers, each flying in their individual private jets, from Detroit to DC, hats in hands, for their welfare check?
     
  7. Jun 8, 2017 #207

    Vigilant1

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    I see a lot of mixing of issues here. The mechanism for funding ATC services is entirely separate from the issue of privatization. We could keep the FAA in charge of developing and running the new system and it could be funded from either general tax revenues or user fees. We could allow a private entity to take charge of developing and running it and similarly it could be funded with users fees (incl fuel taxes, like today) or from the general tax pot (appropriations administered through DOT?).

    Regardless of the funding mechanism, how about we get value for what we spend? How about a well managed program? Real progress and accountability?
     
  8. Jun 8, 2017 #208

    Little Scrapper

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    This bill will die
     
  9. Jun 8, 2017 #209

    rv7charlie

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    *IF* we make enough noise against it. Don't kid yourself; far worse things have been passed; some through flying under the radar (pardon the pun) and others through fear and hysteria among the voters.
     
  10. Jun 8, 2017 #210

    pictsidhe

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    I know, let's put a celebrity businessman with zero ATC experience in charge. That'll be great!
     
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  11. Jun 8, 2017 #211

    BBerson

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    Trump is also an airplane owner and former airline owner. He doesn't need to be an air traffic controller or even a pilot to pick smart aviation people.
    Our current FAA Administrator has no pilot cerficate or any aviation experience at all, as far as I know.
     
  12. Jun 8, 2017 #212

    rv7charlie

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    Nice talking point, but not that relevant. Many (likely most) ATC personnel that are directing you around the sky don't have pilot's licenses, either. But if Trump flies your kite, how do multiple bankruptcies of ATC, Inc strike your fancy? What happens when all the assets are seized for non-payment for subcontractor services?

    We should really focus on having a private *police force* directing us around the sky, and even more important, prosecuting us for getting in the way of the owners' (airlines') a/c.

    Charlie
    (this is fun...)
     
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  13. Jun 8, 2017 #213

    Vigilant1

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  14. Jun 8, 2017 #214

    gtae07

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    And it was hemorrhaging money until it was pretty much singlehandedly saved by Amazon.

    Medicare does that because Medicare enjoys the advantage of being able to pay pennies on the dollar for services and then say "whatcha gonna do about it?"
     
  15. Jun 8, 2017 #215

    Little Scrapper

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    Let's try to keep politics out so we can have a civil discussion and keep it going.
     
  16. Jun 8, 2017 #216

    Turd Ferguson

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    ~7 airports in the NE corridor where everyone wants to takeoff land? It's not just airlines. ATC can't increase volume under present state.
     
  17. Jun 8, 2017 #217

    Kyle Boatright

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    The issues with the USPS are/were largely political as in the politicians required a certain level of service (6 day walk up counters and 6 day route service) but wouldn't allow a price increase to support that level of service.
     
  18. Jun 8, 2017 #218

    Kyle Boatright

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    My opinion is that for an equivalent level of service, by equally skilled people, there will be no cost difference in running ATC.

    My other belief is that you could probably close 10-20% of the towers with no real impact on safety. Beyond that, I don't see how you reduce ATC costs other than by eliminating the horribly inefficient government purchasing process, which has become something of a wealth redistribution scheme.
     
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  19. Jun 8, 2017 #219

    pictsidhe

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    While I'm sure the FAA has more than a few flaws, I can't see privatising ATC as helpful. While trying modernise, they are also being replaced? It seems like a bill a few bored politicians thought might be a good idea.
    fatherly-advice-career-cartoon.jpg
     
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  20. Jun 9, 2017 #220

    Little Scrapper

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    Pretty much.
     

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