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Pops

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So how do I miss one taking off from my grass strip as I go through 200' from the valley floor. Small and hard to see. Plus, my strip is in a valley about 400' below the ridge lines. Will they be flying 200' above the ridges that is in all directions or following the terrain and going down and across the narrow valleys and back up and over the top of the ridges at 200' ?
At my field, on the last 1/2 of the downwind and most of base, you lose sight of the field because of a ridge line and have to fly an angle final for runway 25. You will not be able to see a drone until very, very close.
My field is on the chart, but what about grass fields that is not on the chart. Will they have to close then down ?

Money talks. Big Money talks Big.
 
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jedi

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So how do I miss one taking off from my grass strip as I go through 200' from the valley floor. Small and hard to see. Plus, my strip is in a valley about 400' below the ridge lines. Will they be flying 200' above the ridges that is in all directions or following the terrain and going down and across the narrow valleys and back up and over the top of the ridges at 200' ?
Same way you miss the crow or duck going about it's daily activities. Birds are programed to avoid the collision. Drones need the same programming but that is not a part of current technology yet as far as I know. More development is needed.
 

rv7charlie

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Odds are high that it will be; the intent is already obvious with requirements for position reporting (and monitoring) by the drones themselves. Some of the reporting from EAA already talks about lobbying by them and other groups to ensure that the burden is on the drone industry; not us. And at least for charted strips, it's easy programming to avoid likely traffic areas. Cars with autopilots are already quite good at 'see and avoid', with much shorter sight lines and shorter reaction times available, so as the tech matures, having that onboard a delivery drone will be a minor issue.
I suppose the scariest thing for me is that the FAA seems to be delegating 'drone traffic control' to private companies. This could shape up to be the next battle we have to fight; preventing the ceding of control of airspace to special interests.
Unmanned Aircraft System Traffic Management (UTM)
It's worth noting that no one on the FAA or industry sides wants incidents/accidents, so it seems a reasonable bet that drone ability to see&avoid will get baked in the cake. Given the number of pilot induced midairs in perfect weather every year, I fully expect a better record from even the 1st generation drones. ;-)
 

Jay Kempf

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Depends on whether you design, build and maintain them or you wish to fly them? There might be more people engineering building and maintaining airplanes than flying them but quite a margin.

"It’s not clear to me how, as you posit, widespread use of autonomous aircraft will lead to “a comeback for general aviation.” Seems to me that it could accelerate the end of GA. "
 

blane.c

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I'd say in that scenario the daily route delivery van is in greatest jeopardy of being eliminated. That's where a package drone will be used to drop the delivery on customers doorstep and shuttle back to the local fulfillment center for reload and subsequent deliveries. They will be running at a couple hundred feet altitude on a pre-programmed virtual routing to avoid conflicts. No traffic jams, no courier throwing your plasma monitor, no lunch breaks, no dog bites, no wheeled motor vehicle, etc. That portion of the delivery will essentially be pennies of the total cost.
I bet there will be dog bites.
 

Pops

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Same way you miss the crow or duck going about it's daily activities. Birds are programed to avoid the collision. Drones need the same programming but that is not a part of current technology yet as far as I know. More development is needed.
Wild ducks and geese fly about 60 mph and usually in a flock that is easy to see and they try to stay out of your way. The worse bird problems we have is vultures. They can get 6 -8" wing span and fly alone and they don't want to give way.

IF drones fly AGL over the small sharp valleys and mountain ridges they can be at pattern altitude of our airport. The height of the ridge and + 200' is pattern altitude. I can't see a drone flying down the side of a mountain, fly across a small creek and narrow road the then up the side of a mountain side at 200'. It might average 20-25 mph GS.
 
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BBerson

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I would hope that me and Pops could buy a low cost limited ADS-B portable transceiver to avoid drones, ultralights and everything else in class G airspace without the mode S code needed for class C.
 

Pops

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I would hope that me and Pops could buy a low cost limited ADS-B portable transceiver to avoid drones, ultralights and everything else in class G airspace without the mode S code needed for class C.
Or put a no fly drone zone 3 miles around any private airport paved or grass. Aren't drones to give way to piloted aircraft.

When the FAA finished inspecting the JMR in June, he was leaving my hanger when a local man flew his drone down the runway about 15' high at top speed. He got very upset. Told me to call him if the drone is flying and an airplane in the pattern , he said that is an automatic near-miss. Said he was the head of the drone enforcement program at the FSDO.
 

Pops

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I think as a general rule, drone losses in W. Va will be higher than other parts of the country. 🤣
The worst area with be Logan, Boone, Lincoln, Mingo and McDowell county. You have no idea, its a different country and each county has it's own language.
 
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Pops

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I used to do the drug ( marijuana ) searches over the whole state for the Gov. Always look for round holes in the airframe after a flight. It happens.
 

Pops

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"Money talks. Big Money talks Big. "
May I use this, Pops?
Use anything you want.
Yes, same rules as all RC models. Do you want to ban all RC models within 3 miles of private airstrips.
RC airplanes and drones are two different things. The problem is lumping them together. Before drones there was almost no problems with RC airplanes, but looks like we have it whether we want it or not. I live on the runway and used to fly my RC in the evening from my sons land next door when no aircraft was flying. If anyone pulled their airplane out of the hanger , I landed. No more. I haven't flown RC since the rules came down. I started flying RC in 1958 and if you told me there would be rules like we have now, I wouldn't have believed it.
Commercial drones flying low over my runway at high speed, it an accident waiting to happen.
 

rv7charlie

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I would hope that me and Pops could buy a low cost limited ADS-B portable transceiver to avoid drones, ultralights and everything else in class G airspace without the mode S code needed for class C.
Did you look at any of the links in that 'drone see and avoid' search? Might ease your mind a bit.
 

BBerson

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I looked at some of the see and avoid stuff. I think the delivery drones need to be properly integrated to use the local airport as a base. Otherwise the airport will be shut down by the people if drones are banned near airports.
 

Daleandee

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I would hope that me and Pops could buy a low cost limited ADS-B portable transceiver to avoid drones, ultralights and everything else in class G airspace without the mode S code needed for class C.
Would hope that this is how it will be done via a system that the drone would see the air traffic and avoid it. But they also need to limit drone activity near any airport. I'm guessing the real commercial players will abide by whatever rules are set up but their are cowboys in every group ...
 

dave wolfe

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My understandung is the drones will not have optical see and avoid while manned aircraft are not required to have radios. The industry also desires that recreational RC be severely restricted and need to transmit a beacon. The elephant in the room is manned aircraft have every right to be in the altitude ranges where the drones intend to fly and the manned aircraft ard not required to have radios of any kind. It doesnt add up.

I think the small commercial drones wont be nearly as successful as expected.
 
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