Any Tailwind owners / pilots?

[Toobuilder]

Tail wind landing with very fast aeroplane.

Tailwinds are pretty benign in the landing configuration. Not going to disparage the pilot in this situation, but it looks like he simply ran out of room. The airplane didnt slow to "landing speed" until 90% of the available runway was gone. Thats simply a miscalculation of the energy state of the airplane by the pilot (not that I could do any better), not a "hot" hot airplane problem. If one tries to land a Cherokee on 400 feet of runway with a 100 knot touchdown speed and a fence at the end, its going to wind up on its back too.

All of THAT said, its much better to hit a fence at 30 knots than come up short and stall/spin in from 100 feet!

 

[thjakits]

... "Thjakits, I've got a copy of the Olds conversion plans. Looked really intimidating when I bought them about 30 years ago (is a personal note from Steve worth anything?), but don't look that bad after getting a little building experience." ....

It certainly has historic value!!

This olds - I believe - is also the ancestor of all the british Rover V8s, right?
Considering the omnipresent Chevy LS series and even "more modern" Lexus LS V8s - I wonder how much work it would be to conver one of those to run inverted? Dry-Sump systems are plenty out there - a prop-bearing-plate/front engine mount - for the V8 to bolt on with the fly-wheel side (....a las Paul Lamar's rotary mount!) and you should have quite an engine! optimize the heads and cams for low rpm and you should have quite a 360 competitor!!
Lexus is already all-alu and 300hp out of the car, it get's pumped to around 800 hp regularly, so the structural integrity is there to support 200 or so hp at lower rpm.... - most certainly, though any Lexus or Chevy would need some boost (charger or turbo) to produce 200+ hp at 3000rpm or below....
[I wonder though what happened to the certified version of the Lexus V8, with a TBO of only 300 hrs or so...?]

At the end though, it is a basic question of weight to power ratio....INCL. all ancilliary items!

It's always down to "...does the stuff I take out and replace with something else have more performance or less?"


Cheers all!

Happy New Year!!

thjakits


Wiki says: "
Derivatives
FV2400-2TC
In 1997, the US Federal Aviation Administration granted production certification for the FV2400-2TC, a twin-turbocharged airplane powerplant based on the UZ series Lexus engine.[9] The 360 hp (268 kW; 365 PS) FV2400 was developed in partnership with Hamilton Standard, which provided the digital engine-control system.[9] The goal was to produce a four-seat propeller aircraft.[10]

VT300i
In 1998, a marine derivative of the UZ powerplant was produced for boating applications. The 4.0 L VT300i engine, producing 224 kW; 304 PS (300 hp) at 6000 rpm and 420 N⋅m (310 lb⋅ft) at 4200 rpm, used the same block as the UZ engine on the Lexus SC 400, GS 400, and LS 400."


Here a discussion in ZA - with a few wrong assumptions mixed in:

Lexus engines??? - AvCom

And here another one:

Can a car engine power a plane? (engines) - Aviation -Airplanes, aircrafts, pilots, airports, airlines, helicopters - Page 3 - City-Data Forum

I seem to remember that back in the late 90's Toyota got an engine FAA approved, IIRC it was the V-8 that was used in the Tundra (with I'm sure a few

www.city-data.com

And a bit about the Lexus V8:

Most durable, longest lasting cars – Lexus LS400

Development of the LS began in 1983 as the F1 project, the code name for a secret flagship sedan. The resulting sedan followed an extended five-year design process at a cost of over US$1 billion, a…

whycars.wordpress.com

SORRY for the departure from Tailwind specifics!!

Cheers all!

 

[Toobuilder]

... "Thjakits, I've got a copy of the Olds conversion plans. Looked really intimidating when I bought them about 30 years ago (is a personal note from Steve worth anything?), but don't look that bad after getting a little building experience." ....

It certainly has historic value!!

This olds - I believe - is also the ancestor of all the british Rover V8s, right?
Considering the omnipresent Chevy LS series and even "more modern" Lexus LS V8s - I wonder how much work it would be to conver one of those to run inverted? Dry-Sump systems are plenty out there - a prop-bearing-plate/front engine mount - for the V8 to bolt on with the fly-wheel side (....a las Paul Lamar's rotary mount!) and you should have quite an engine! optimize the heads and cams for low rpm and you should have quite a 360 competitor!!
Lexus is already all-alu and 300hp out of the car, it get's pumped to around 800 hp regularly, so the structural integrity is there to support 200 or so hp at lower rpm.... - most certainly, though any Lexus or Chevy would need some boost (charger or turbo) to produce 200+ hp at 3000rpm or below....
[I wonder though what happened to the certified version of the Lexus V8, with a TBO of only 300 hrs or so...?]

At the end though, it is a basic question of weight to power ratio....INCL. all ancilliary items!

It's always down to "...does the stuff I take out and replace with something else have more performance or less?"


Cheers all!

Happy New Year!!

thjakits


Wiki says: "
Derivatives
FV2400-2TC
In 1997, the US Federal Aviation Administration granted production certification for the FV2400-2TC, a twin-turbocharged airplane powerplant based on the UZ series Lexus engine.[9] The 360 hp (268 kW; 365 PS) FV2400 was developed in partnership with Hamilton Standard, which provided the digital engine-control system.[9] The goal was to produce a four-seat propeller aircraft.[10]

VT300i
In 1998, a marine derivative of the UZ powerplant was produced for boating applications. The 4.0 L VT300i engine, producing 224 kW; 304 PS (300 hp) at 6000 rpm and 420 N⋅m (310 lb⋅ft) at 4200 rpm, used the same block as the UZ engine on the Lexus SC 400, GS 400, and LS 400."


Here a discussion in ZA - with a few wrong assumptions mixed in:

Lexus engines??? - AvCom

And here another one:

Can a car engine power a plane? (engines) - Aviation -Airplanes, aircrafts, pilots, airports, airlines, helicopters - Page 3 - City-Data Forum

I seem to remember that back in the late 90's Toyota got an engine FAA approved, IIRC it was the V-8 that was used in the Tundra (with I'm sure a few

www.city-data.com

And a bit about the Lexus V8:

Most durable, longest lasting cars – Lexus LS400

Development of the LS began in 1983 as the F1 project, the code name for a secret flagship sedan. The resulting sedan followed an extended five-year design process at a cost of over US$1 billion, a…

whycars.wordpress.com

SORRY for the departure from Tailwind specifics!!

Cheers all!

A short search on this site will uncover a plethora of discussion about inverted and/or direct drive LS engines for aircraft use. There are many threads covering hundreds of pages if you are interested.

 

[thjakits]

...on it! Thanks Toobuilder!

thjakits

 

[Protech Racing]

The pushrod alloy engines are a lot smaller than the OHC engines, and lighter also . I have built the Rover/Buick and they come out at under or around 400#. I have one for my TVR.
The Rover ports and stock cam timing will make enough torque at 2800-3200 RPM for direct drive . But a lot better at 4500 T/O RPM. , with a torque cam .

The Tailwind that I did the engine work on was a Ford 3.8 V6. Pretty compact. He still used a big belt redrive on it . It was at the Brooksville airport. The builder died before lift off. I think it did some taxi bunny hops , not sure of success. My race shop is 1 mile form the EAA hanger . Those guys think that everything done in the hanger is free.

 

[BJC]

Protech:

Have you done any testing of anti-reversion cones in exhaust headers? I talked to Kent Paser, and he swore by them on a Lycoming O-320, but I have not found anyone else in the E-AB world who has used them.


BJC

 

[BJC]

Those guys think that everything done in the hanger is free.

Circa 2000, there were two older brothers in one of the end Tee hangars who had just completed a Lancair 360 (or 320) with some “interesting” features. Do you know it the airplane flew successfully?


BJC

 

[Protech Racing]

No. I know nothing of the Lancair. I mostly knew Edgar with the LongEZ and Jim with the Tailwind. They scoffed at my Ultra light , so I kept to my self .
RE step[ tubes or antireversion No. Never messed with them .

They may help the low end with small tubes. I use a little step after a small bell mouth exhaust exit for my VW race engines. I am trying to get my max Torque at 5200 RPM tho.
My car is #39, Ogren ,134 MPH ; H Production 2015 SCCA Runoffs

 

[BJC]

Thanks.


BJC

 

[BoeveP51]

I did a lot of work on a Ford powered Tailwind at Brooksville. Is this the same one? Glass covered wings. Very nice work . Jim somebody ..

Yes, same plane. I rebuilt it from frame up. Weighs a few hundred pounds lighter and the engine runs.... Honda 1.5L Turbo. Now on 2nd engine as I blew up the first on take-off.

 

[Protech Racing]

Was the Ford too heavy? I remember Jim mounting a lot of stuff in the rear fuse boxes .

 

[TFF]

The Tailwind is a pretty compact plane. It is very accessible to build. A W10 empty should aim for 900 lbs; over 1050 starts eating up margin. The plane is strong and I have heard of some taking off at 1700 lbs when 1450 is supposed to be max. The heavy ones seem to be the hand fulls. There is not much wing there. RVs got to grow in size and capacity to stay up with needs. A 15% bigger Tailwind in all the right places would be a winner. If you just blew it up, it would look porky. Width and height would need to be probably 10%, but length change the fuselage. The wing, and tail to 15%. Then you would have a plane that could handle weight of an engine with a gear drive, and a little more room. In RV terms it would be a 6 1/2.

 

[Doran Jaffas]

Tailwinds are pretty benign in the landing configuration. Not going to disparage the pilot in this situation, but it looks like he simply ran out of room. The airplane didnt slow to "landing speed" until 90% of the available runway was gone. Thats simply a miscalculation of the energy state of the airplane by the pilot (not that I could do any better), not a "hot" hot airplane problem. If one tries to land a Cherokee on 400 feet of runway with a 100 knot touchdown speed and a fence at the end, its going to wind up on its back too.

All of THAT said, its much better to hit a fence at 30 knots than come up short and stall/spin in from 100 feet!

After 100 plus hrs in my 0-200A powered W8 I can attest to the ease of landing with the proper airspeed on approach and over the fence for touch down in the 3 point attitude.
That being said...no 2 builds are alike and 625MS was built very well by James Shiver. The take off is equally tame. Tail up at 50 mph, lift off at 70 mph and climb at 90 mph.
Stalls are straight forward with plenty of warning before the break.
My top speed, stabilized is 145 mph with room for improvement by adding some cuffs around struts and wheel pant gear legs.
Cruise is 130 mph at just under 4 gph. Fuel capacity is 24 useable.
Empty weight is 720 lbs. Gross wt. is 1250 lbs. I have been 20 percent over gross and still had respectable climb rates.
Not the speed of the larger power plants but I am very satisfied with the over all performance with the little engine.

 

[BoeveP51]

Was the Ford too heavy? I remember Jim mounting a lot of stuff in the rear fuse boxes .

Way too heavy, not to mention the weight he put on with the fiberglass fuselage covering. Putting in the Honda 1.5L Turbo and cleaning up the plane I saved over 300 lbs. Drop by and take a look at it sometime. Just getting ready to start flying it again. I have one more issue to finish, putting in a radiator door monitor so I know what position it is in. It is controlled with a servo so just using the switch I can adjust the door opening.

 

[speedracer]

If I remember correctly, the 1962 Buick 215 ci aluminum block V-8 in my 1968 VW Bug was about 50 lbs heavier than the stock 1600 cc VW engine as removed. Yes, they are relatively light weight for a V-8.

If anyone is interested, I have a 215 Olds aluminum V8 with a Buick 300 crank for 266 cu.in. dual distributers, reduction unit , supposedly 260 HP meant for a Prowler A/C. Located in Hood River, Or. $500.00 takes it away. Bob 541 980-1723.

 

[Doran Jaffas]

Way too heavy, not to mention the weight he put on with the fiberglass fuselage covering. Putting in the Honda 1.5L Turbo and cleaning up the plane I saved over 300 lbs. Drop by and take a look at it sometime. Just getting ready to start flying it again. I have one more issue to finish, putting in a radiator door monitor so I know what position it is in. It is controlled with a servo so just using the switch I can adjust the door opening.

Where is the bird located?

 

[Tailwind_Fan]

I just took delivery of the parts to Tailwind SN #98, first flown in January 1961.

It’s pretty much all here, but it’s going to take some work. I’m meeting with a DAR next week to make a plan for what it’ll take to get it airworthy. What fabric that was on the tail was stamped 1.7 once PolyFiber.

 

[Toobuilder]

Well, it only took a few years but I can no longer talk about the good deal Tailwind my neghbor has... Glad you had the good sense to grab it.

 

[Tailwind_Fan]

Well, it only took a few years but I can no longer talk about the good deal Tailwind my neghbor has... Glad you had the good sense to grab it.

Honestly, it’s going to take a decent amount of work. Adam is swamped with project, and I’m already building a W10. I felt it was a decent little airplane that I could complete and develop skills on. I know where an O-235 conical mount that would be perfect on the nose of this airplane.

-Alana

 

[BoeveP51]

B

Where is the bird located?

Brooksville, FL KBKV