Another T-51 Mustang Loss...

[TXFlyGuy]

A nice example, LS3 powered T-51 went down a month ago on the way home from Sun 'n Fun.

Here is some background on the plane, while at Sun 'n Fun:



And here is the accident report:

Titan T-51D Mustang, N151CM: Accident occurred April 24, 2022 and Incident occurred July 18, 2021

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final repor...

www.kathrynsreport.com

 

[wsimpso1]

Finding out what actually happened will be instructional. Fuel pressure loss reported by the pilot (if we can believe it) could mean empty tank, broken line, blocked filter, broken pump, failed electric supply, open fuel regulator, etc. Let's see if anything concrete and actionable is discovered.

 

[Vigilant1]

I remember recently when there was grousing about the insurance premiums for a T-51. I wonder what insurance will cost after the last 12 months of losses in this type.
It is a shame, and we all hope things go well for the pilot of N151CM.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Serious injury. Two broken legs. Now in rehab.
Let's just say that this accident had nothing to do with the engine, or the airframe.

4 accidents in the last 12 months, with serious damage in two, and the other two totaled.

The T-51 suffers a serious accident every 1200 flight hours, on a fleet wide basis.

Insurance?

 

[BJC]

TX, any forecast on when yours will get airborne again?


BJC

 

[Vigilant1]

4 accidents in the last 12 months, with serious damage in two, and the other two totaled.

The T-51 suffers a serious accident every 1200 flight hours, on a fleet wide basis.

Insurance?

Hopefully, insurance may still be available to cover liability (a requirement for keeping a plane at many airports). I'd think hull coverage might be unobtainable or crazy expensive.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

TX, any forecast on when yours will get airborne again?

BJC

Depends on who you talk to. A good friend who was a major helper in the original assembly says 3 to 5 years.

My mechanic who is a actually doing the work says 12 months.

If the plane is flying a year from now, I will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[TXFlyGuy]

Hopefully, insurance may still be available to cover liability (a requirement for keeping a plane at many airports). I'd think hull coverage might be unobtainable or crazy expensive.

Not Likely. I spoke with AVEMCO, and they said they might consider Ground-Not-In-Motion, in 3 years.

I might be able to get liability, but that is not certain now.

 

[Yellowhammer]

Not Likely. I spoke with AVEMCO, and they said they might consider Ground-Not-In-Motion, in 3 years.

I might be able to get liability, but that is not certain now.

TX,

What happened with your Mustang?

 

[TXFlyGuy]

TX,

What happened with your Mustang?

I thought everyone knew...

 

[TXFlyGuy]

It is being repaired at this moment. The new plane will be better! Stronger wing, more powerful engine.

 

[Hot Wings]

It is being repaired at this moment. The new plane will be better! Stronger wing, more powerful engine.

Going to change your name to Oscar and the plane's to Steve?

 

[Tom DM]

The T-51 suffers a serious accident every 1200 flight hours, on a fleet wide basis.

Insurance?

How many are/were flying? Any pattern?

Sorry about yours, bad day in the office.

 

[Wanttaja]

How many are/were flying? Any pattern?

US registry as of January this year shows 53, plus another 11 on the deregistered list. Additional examples have flown in other countries.

My US accident database shows 12 T-51 accidents, starting in 2008. Seven of them were directly engine related; two involving the electrical system or electronic ignition. Four of the seven were primarily attributed to builder or maintainer error.

This is a higher percentage than seen in the full homebuilt fleet (58% vs. 31% power-failure accidents) but the sample size is small.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Tom DM]

The 1200 Hr before major accident was a bit special but then it is a fairly complex airplane , not easy to build and while Titan site "easy to fly", everything is easy to one how know/can.

I get the scale-thing as the 100% are in another league but maybe the scale-factor plays its part in the accident rate. The plane is scaled yett the air doesn't. And as airplane are quite a number of equations , that might come into play. Anyway: nice aircrafts , that's for sure.

 

[Tiger Tim]

Seems to me that with electrical dependency being on the rise in amateur airplanes someone could do well to write (or promote the crap out of) a book on aeronautical electrical design. Many instances of ‘good enough’ are proving that they really aren’t.

This applies to more than the few T-51s that have had forced landings, including a friend’s Zodiac who lost total electric power (including fuel pumps) and ended up in a field.

 

[rv7charlie]

Aeroelectric Connection

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...0QFnoECAoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1ZON7SLF9-SfXtv_3iy2WB

[/URL]

 

[Wanttaja]

The 1200 Hr before major accident was a bit special but then it is a fairly complex airplane , not easy to build and while Titan site "easy to fly", everything is easy to one how know/can.

I get the scale-thing as the 100% are in another league but maybe the scale-factor plays its part in the accident rate. The plane is scaled yett the air doesn't. And as airplane are quite a number of equations , that might come into play. Anyway: nice aircrafts , that's for sure.

As I mentioned, my own homebuilt aircraft database shows twelve Titan T-51 accidents through 2020. Only *one* of those accidents involved pilot error, and that was related to managing the aircraft systems, not the ability to fly the aircraft. This is opposed to, for instance, Vans aircraft, where about 40% of the accidents were due to stick-and-rudder issues.

The pilots involved in T-51 accidents had median total times almost three times those of the overall homebuilt accidents. Median Time-in-Type was slightly lower (48 hours vs. 60 hours), but, again, none of the 12 accidents was initiated by problems with the stick-and-rudder work.

It's valid to be concerned with handling issues of scale replicas, but such has not yet become apparent so far in Titan T-51 accidents in the US.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Marc Zeitlin]

Seems to me that with electrical dependency being on the rise in amateur airplanes someone could do well to write (or promote the crap out of) a book on aeronautical electrical design. Many instances of ‘good enough’ are proving that they really aren’t...

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but it's hard to believe, with the long time that you've been around here, that you're not familiar with the Aero Electric Connection:

AeroElectric Connection - Aircraft Electrical Systems

which is/does exactly what you propose someone should do, and has done so, with continual updates for over 20 years.

 

[Marc Zeitlin]

As I mentioned, my own homebuilt aircraft database shows twelve Titan T-51 accidents through 2020. Only *one* of those accidents involved pilot error, and that was related to managing the aircraft systems, not the ability to fly the aircraft...

All I can say is that when 19% of the extant fleet of aircraft have had accidents, there's something dreadfully wrong with the design. And I say that as a mechanical/aeronautical design engineer. Even if EVERY accident had been deemed "pilot error" (which apparently almost none were), it would STILL be a design deficiency, since the design would be what was leading pilots to make errors at a tremendous rate.

With 2000 Long-EZ's flying, a 19% accident rate would imply that almost 400 of them would have had reported accidents.