# Another nail in the coffin...?

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#### PTAirco

##### Well-Known Member

Homebuilders in the US are fortunate to have this company as a resource. I remember the first time I saw an Aircraft Spruce catalog in England. I did not know such a thing even existed. It was like opening as treasure chest. I was lucky to have spent the last 20 years within a few miles drive of the West Coast location.

I always found their prices reasonable, but the new catalog makes me angry and disappointed.

Just about every item in there has increased in price by about 25%. I have found plenty of examples of 50% price increases and a few of 100%. Did I say I was disappointed? No. I'm p***ed off. That was just a ten minute sampling. Hardware has skyrocketed. Steel tube, sheet metal, fabric covering materials, everything.

I know some people will blame this on politics (I'm not going there) or this mysterious "supply chain issue" thing.
I think jumping on the covid bandwagon has something to do with it.

The bottom line is: every homebuilt project from now on will cost between 25 and 50% more than it did 2 years ago. Kit manufacturers will have to jack up their prices, lose sales, fewer new projects will get started, lots will be abandoned. Sad times ahead.

#### llemon

##### Well-Known Member
Everything has insane lead times and costs, from server racks to flower pots. Its almost like JIT was a bad idea.

#### Hawk81A

##### Well-Known Member
I know some people will blame this on politics (I'm not going there) or this mysterious "supply chain issue" thing.
I think jumping on the covid bandwagon has something to do with it.
If it looks like a duck, has webbed feet and quacks... Sorry, just sad reality. I maintain a small fleet and this is reality. Dennis

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
The product that Aircraft Spruce sells for me has not increased in wholesale/retail price for 13 years. I have absorbed all the mfg. cost increases personally because I built in a good margin in the beginning. I still do pretty well on the product, and it is still almost all made in the US.

Neither of the arplanes on the covers of those two catalogs are homebuilts.

The cost of an orange, a loaf of bread, and a gallon of gas has also gone up a lot, so it's not like Jim Irwin has decided to screw anyone.

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#### dog

##### Well-Known Member
not every project will cost more
good scroungers will be fine
there are still very good bargains to be had out there on things like power plants,propellers,landing gear,brakes and tires,even flying aircraft of
every type
and off course the less you buy,the lighter your
airplane
plus there are HUNDREDS of other souces for new experimental parts,just not everything under one roof like AS,which as pointed out is tilted towards certified anyway,and fleet operators need there parts now,right now,so if AS can keep the parts comming in what has become a guessing game in many other industrys,that a good thing at twice the price

#### Lucky Dog

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
What I like about Aircraft Spruce is that they don't mark up items they had in stock and had purchased at a lower price in the past. You can see that reflected in the hardware and metals sections, where a foot of (making this up) 3/8 inch .028 wall may cost more than a foot of 3/4 .035 wall tube. I haven't met nor dealt with a more honest group of people in the 45 years I have been making cars, motorcycles and airplanes. They still have a few cases of Give-O-**** in stock, in spite of the fact that the EPA has ordered the substance off the shelves in the USA.

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
ACS has treated me and all other vendors/mfg's I know very very well. Jim is an airplane guy first, and an "MBA suit" second. You have to have both skill sets, and use them both, to get where he has gotten.

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
Just about every item in there has increased in price by about 25%. I have found plenty of examples of 50% price increases and a few of 100%.

What is your problem? Just raise your income by 100% and you will do fine.

Oh, you are on a fixed income like me, then just stop buying and you can lower the cost by 100%.

Now you got me started and I am POed too.

Good news is that it all works out in the end. It just takes a while to correct.

If I understand history correctly post war inflation is what started the home building aircraft movement in the 50’s. Pilots couldn’t afford nearly $10,000 for a Cessna 170 so they used the GI bill to purchase a house for$10,000 instead, with a 3% mortgage, no money down, and then proceeded to build their airplane in the garage.

Sea Bees were $5,000 and Ercoupes were a bit over$2,000 IIRC. And sales tax, was there any or was it under 3%?

If you just can’t afford what you need the corporations and government will make up the difference and pass it along to the taxpayers.

The big difference is back then there was lots of cool government surplus stuff. Some bought B-17s or B-26es. Others bought P-51s or BT-13s. My dad brought home a Norden bomb site for me to play with and a cool Navy box kite and other stuff that did not fly for **** if you weren’t in the trade winds.

PS. I have a solid lead on a ‘46 J-3 restored to mint condition in ‘94. You can have it and a rented hanger at KAWO for only $78,000 and a 10.5% use tax along with all the necessary paperwork. The line forms to the right (or to the left if that is your preference). Notice original purchase price$2,616.50 in July 1946.
Ten years later an article in one of the aviation tags told how you could, just like “I” did, purchase an old run down J-3 and return it to flyable condition for only $1,000 while new 172s were a bit over$10.000.

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#### rv7charlie

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Can't say whether the level of price increase is reasonable, but if you compare the level of increase you're seeing for ACS parts to the level of increase in the price of flying homebuilts over the same period, you might get a little perspective, if not comfort. I'm pretty sure that if my wife would let me sell (she wouldn't), I could almost double my money on the flying RV6 I bought 3 years ago.

News flash; Covid is real, the war Russia started in Ukraine is real, all those truck drivers, dock workers, etc etc that retired during Covid are real, [insert a nearly endless list of other stuff] is real, and all that stuff affects supply of goods, and their prices. The pandemic drove a tremendous surge in homebuilding (lots of time on a lot of people's hands) and ACS may well be doing a bit of profiteering. But that's capitalism, right? At least with ACS, we don't need their stuff to avoid going hungry, or to heat our homes.

#### DennisK

##### Active Member
80% of all US dollars ever created were in the last two years, and there's no sign of that slowing down. But 99% of the value of the US dollar had already been stolen since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, so this is just the last 1% fizzling away.

Best start paying attention to politics because the next currency will be introduced soon (most likely digital/crypto), and it will be an even worse scam if everyone just goes along with whatever is presented to them. It's actually a great opportunity for a return to sound money like the original US dollar before fractional reserve banking was used to steal most of the physical gold. But we have to refuse the scam first.

#### rv7charlie

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Thanks for your century of monetary policy in a paragraph. ;-) Most of us realize that it ain't that simple, and if we thought any of the above had any chance of being true, we'd look it up for ourselves.

Charlie
(no recent hotel stays, but I do have an Economics degree)

#### ScaleBirdsScott

##### Well-Known Member
I thought the nail in the coffin was the switch from "Homebuilt" to "Homebuild", but pricing is certainly a thing, too.

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Thanks for your century of monetary policy in a paragraph. ;-) Most of us realize that it ain't that simple, and if we thought any of the above had any chance of being true, we'd look it up for ourselves.

Charlie
(no recent hotel stays, but I do have an Economics degree)
Most scams are not simple.

#### N804RV

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
ACS prices are not cheap. But, the big "corporate" maintenance FBO at my airport gets about 100% markup on most items, so ACS is still cheaper, by a lot!

#### J.L. Frusha

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
So, go to Home Despots and select your wood for yourself... Select Yellow Pine meets the same weight and strength as the 'preferred' Sitka Spruce (look it up, I did).

Plenty of electronics kits and plans are available for all the instrumentation you could possibly want, too.

But... What do I know? I'm just a DIYer with a very low budget. Oh, wait! Silly me, this is the Home Built Airplanes forum...

#### N804RV

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
80% of all US dollars ever created were in the last two years, and there's no sign of that slowing down. But 99% of the value of the US dollar had already been stolen since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, so this is just the last 1% fizzling away...

There's plenty of reason to be critical of the Fed without buying into the whole "Creature From Jekyll Island" conspiracy theory.

Just don't panic and sell all your 401k mutual funds to buy a camper. Your widow will be stuck with it and all the medical bills you'll rack up after you spend whats left of your retirement savings on taxes and medicare premiums.

#### J.L. Frusha

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
There's plenty of reason to be critical of the Fed without buying into the whole "Creature From Jekyll Island" conspiracy theory.

Just don't panic and sell all your 401k mutual funds to buy a camper. Your widow will be stuck with it and all the medical bills you'll rack up after you spend whats left of your retirement savings on taxes and medicare premiums.
Almost 60, on VA Disability... I broke down and bought a farm... Not THE farm, but 6.39 acres, 100 year old house (POS) and weird 'shops'.

Hopefully, we can get 2 years of profit/loss records in, to get Fed Grants... JS

#### Yellowhammer

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
80% of all US dollars ever created were in the last two years, and there's no sign of that slowing down. But 99% of the value of the US dollar had already been stolen since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, so this is just the last 1% fizzling away.

Best start paying attention to politics because the next currency will be introduced soon (most likely digital/crypto), and it will be an even worse scam if everyone just goes along with whatever is presented to them. It's actually a great opportunity for a return to sound money like the original US dollar before fractional reserve banking was used to steal most of the physical gold. But we have to refuse the scam first.
Here here! I concur sir.
Our money is FIAT currency. Backed by nothing more than how much is in circulation. F.D.R. said once that if the American people truly understood our monetary system there would be a revolution over night.

The Federal Reserve is about as federal as Federal Express. It is owned by European Central Bankers and once a nation turns over the coining and printing of their money to a private entity, it loses it's sovereignty. Ours was lost in 1913. Every dollar that is printed has debt attached to it.

And to think before 1913, we had a SURPLUS, not a deficit, is infuriating on many levels.

Never forget my dear friends, it is all by design.

-Yellowhammer

#### Dana

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Enough politics and monetary theory, please keep it to homebuilt airplanes.

#### SpruceForest

##### Well-Known Member
Everything has insane lead times and costs, from server racks to flower pots. Its almost like JIT was a bad idea.
Just in Case will take a while to build out and replace JIT. 5-7 years and the prices in the Spruce catalog should stabilize. The reasons for the price increases are beyond the scope of discussion the mods will reasonably allow, so go read Zeihan or Bremmer or any number of other geo-political authors for a picture of the why, the where, and the when part of the story.

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