Another affordable avionic - iLevil AP

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Alessandre

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This year in Oshkosh I saw this new feature, it's another avionics that connects to WiFi with the iPad, but this one has autopilot, it's not an autopilot that acts directly on the commands, this one acts on the trim tabs with an advantage since when it's off works as autotrim like the Airbus airplanes:


I think this avionic with 2 or 3 displays and a backup altimeter, climb and speedometer could be an very affordable glass cockpit.
 

cluttonfred

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Personally, I don't think I would call $2,570 for an EFIS driving unit (display sold separately) with a basic autopilot and two servo tabs as an "affordable" solution. Lose the autopilot and servo tabs and you can get their AW model for just over half that price at $1,395. And the Talos Aeolus Sense basic model is just $799, less when on sale.
 

blane.c

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I don't fly with auto pilot, it puts me to sleep and it trims to max if icing before it "cuts loose" and then you have a iced airplane at max trim.
 

Alessandre

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I would like to know the opinion about the trim tab autopilot, if it can work in a turbulence, I never flew an autopilot airplane.
 

Daleandee

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I would like to know the opinion about the trim tab autopilot, if it can work in a turbulence, I never flew an autopilot airplane.
I've flown with folks that had an auto pilot but none with a trim tab version. Some handle light turbulence pretty well but most pilots feel better hand flying the plane when the rough and tumble gets serious.

I recently bought a second hand EZ Pilot (fancy wing leveler) but I haven't installed it yet as some parts ordered to install it have been slow to arrive. The EZ auto pilot is here: Ez Pilot
 

Alessandre

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Seems so last year..

This is really the more affordable AP option.

About iPad vs dedicated displays EFIS is there some real advantage in use these dedicated displays in reliability and functionality over these sensors that cast WIFI information to iPad? These technologies is new and maybe can make cheap the use of glass cockpit.
 

dwalker

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This is really the more affordable AP option.

About iPad vs dedicated displays EFIS is there some real advantage in use these dedicated displays in reliability and functionality over these sensors that cast WIFI information to iPad? These technologies is new and maybe can make cheap the use of glass cockpit.
I think dedicated displays have a place. That unit has a bluetooth function that allows you to pair it with an app on your tablet or phone for nav. but having the dedicated display means if you just dont need the tablet for nav you can still have a working autopilot.
 

Alessandre

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The problem is that the dedicated displays are just super expensive tablets that run only 1 application, to work they need all sensors and accessories, making a quote with TALOS system (with ADS-B), autopilot, transponder and VHF separated I got $4600, that's just a little more than just 1 display. Adding more a speedometer, climb and altimeter instrument I would have a reliable instrument panel for 5.5K for only VFR that could be safe for an accidental IMC.
 

dwalker

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The problem is that the dedicated displays are just super expensive tablets that run only 1 application, to work they need all sensors and accessories, making a quote with TALOS system (with ADS-B), autopilot, transponder and VHF separated I got $4600, that's just a little more than just 1 display. Adding more a speedometer, climb and altimeter instrument I would have a reliable instrument panel for 5.5K for only VFR that could be safe for an accidental IMC.
I m not sure I understand you, the above unit I showed comes with the display for under $500.
 

Alessandre

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I m not sure I understand you, the above unit I showed comes with the display for under $500.
I was talking about the traditional brands like Garmin G3X or Dynon. This X-flight is really a good option, but is limited from GPS information about altitude and speed, then is useful only like artificial horizon and autopilot.
 
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dwalker

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I was talking about the traditional brands like Garmin G3X or Dynon. This X-flight is really a good option, but is limited from GPS information about altitude and speed, then is useful only like artificial horizon and autopilot.
I guess I'm looking at it as I don't need that much more function in the auto pilot, as for that information I will use something like the Fliysense Pro from Talos etc.
 

Daleandee

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I am not really interested in autopilots but that vendor has a basic GPS-based AHRS for just $400 (3.5" display) or $600 (5" sunlight-readable display) that seems like an interesting option.
I noted earlier that I had bought a wing leveler. I like hand flying the plane but the Sonex is neutral stability and longer cross country flights in the bumps can get tiresome. A wing leveler is also useable when you need to read a chart, write something down, or when the lunch bell rings ...
 

opcod

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Keep in mind the <price< difference from a Garmin and other <supposed, cheap stuff. Is bad electronic, bad developpement and no noise testing or proper electronic test and no regulation test. Don<t complain about radio interference and so on. A 3.5 / 5 in sunreadable is 400$ alone. The cpu cheap microcontroller are like arduino for 8$ and the main part, as the requirement : the sensor : is only a cheap one at 2$ , not even a backup or something else. The gx5 from Garmin do have the autopilot included , fully test and working. But at same time people want to safe 50cent on bolt. Safety in flight should not be rule by : hey i save 400$ for something that is not tested, don<t do even the quarter of a real system. No gain here. Doing pcb and circuit help to see that more easily.
 

Rhino

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Do you have evidence of such interference from these autopilot systems? Conjecture can be useful to point you in the right direction sometimes, but it proves nothing. You also have to understand the paradigm changes for different pilots and flying conditions. For a VFR only pilot who flies only in daylight, autopilot isn't necessarily a mission critical item. It most likely isn't going to affect their flight safety if the autopilot doesn't work, so the impact is very different for different pilots and their situations. That makes the cheaper autopilots a much more useful and attractive option for simple VFR pilots. Also understand that much of the difference in cost is often due more to onerous FAA certification requirements than it is to product quality. Certainly the risk is higher in a system that has undergone less testing, and that's something to consider, but the potential impact can effectively mitigate that concern. Now if you have evidence that any of these devices cause radio interference, that's useful information, so please present it. I'd be more than happy to hear about it, as I'm sure others would here as well.
 

Alessandre

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I think he big question is perhaps whether this autopilot that works only on the secondary surfaces if it really works or can put the plane in a PIO-type oscillation?
I hadn't even thought about this issue of interference, but it makes sense since a device that depends on wifi on board can both promote and suffer interference, but I've seen videos of MGL-type avionics having problems in flight, I have no idea how often this is it can happen, but a traditional system usually sells the display for something around 3k and puts the sensors together to make everything work and easily goes over 8k, so anything that provides more information than a traditional steam gage used in parallel with these could be a breakthrough in terms of quality at low cost.
So the final question is which more reliable are these dedicated avionics in relation to these new wifi alternatives that use tablet as a display? I think few people can answer because is hard to find reviews.
 

rv7charlie

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For a little perspective, experimental autopilots based on trim tabs have been around for at least 50 years. I had one in a T-18 built in the '70s, that used 2 thermistors and an air jet for inertial sensing. It's legit to be concerned/cautious about stuff that's new to you, but in this case, it is certainly possible to do it right.
 
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