An unorthodox seaplane hull, modell tests

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qxev

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Thanks for the links. I am especially interested at the links referring to efforts made to prevent "accidental lift-off" and "backflip" of racing boats. As I stated earlier in this thread, I wonder why no use is being made of aerodynamic surfaces to counteract these tendencies. Could the centre of lift be placed behind the centre of mass, instead of in front of it, where it currently seems to be? This would have a stabilising effect and could be achieved by adding a horizontal wing behind the transom/ engine. This would effectively turn the boat into a plane when airborne. The tunnel roof would become a very low aspect ratio wing when airborne. The boat could then "glide" back to the surface, instead of suddenly become uncontrollable when the angle of attack reaches a certain value.

These boats are certainly where I got my inspriration from, see edited picture:
View attachment 35843
 
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qxev

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you may be interested in this information



 
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Kingfisher

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Hello Qxef, is this article available in English or German? Are there any videos of these boats/planes (I will have a look, too)? Thanks for posting this, I have often wondered why nobody has considered applying aircraft principles to race boats, but obviously these guys have done it.
 

Kingfisher

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I can't believe no one even comments on this post after all this talk about twin hulls, tunnel hulls and what not. I find this quite often, when someone presents something of substance, suddenly everyone turns silent. Does anyone now more about these seaplanes?
 

tunnels

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yeah I know what you mean !!its a radical thing that's for sure ! looking at the hull its a very strange type of a tunnel !that obviously worked ! and did most all of the things I been on about since day one and will keep on about forever more .
My interest in planes has taken aback seat of late because im back in nz for a few months !!
 

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I can't believe no one even comments on this post after all this talk about twin hulls, tunnel hulls and what not. I find this quite often, when someone presents something of substance, suddenly everyone turns silent. Does anyone now more about these seaplanes?
Well, I did look at the pictures noticed the vehicle with one central air propeller, I have previously seen that one in a book on Russian Ekranoplans. Witch is the class all the pictured vehicles probably belong to. At second thought, the one most interesting is the twin fin "speedboat" wing in ground effect vehicle with some kind of outboard engine and propeller in the water. From the drawing and pictures it look like this one will get airborne without pitching up that much. At least it look like the general arrangement will keep it from reaching high angles of attach/trim angles.

The single fin "speedboat" have one interesting feature, it look like the entire tail is hinged to allow movement of the horizontal tail surface.
 

Kingfisher

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Well, I did look at the pictures noticed the vehicle with one central air propeller, I have previously seen that one in a book on Russian Ekranoplans. Witch is the class all the pictured vehicles probably belong to. At second thought, the one most interesting is the twin fin "speedboat" wing in ground effect vehicle with some kind of outboard engine and propeller in the water. From the drawing and pictures it look like this one will get airborne without pitching up that much. At least it look like the general arrangement will keep it from reaching high angles of attach/trim angles.

The single fin "speedboat" have one interesting feature, it look like the entire tail is hinged to allow movement of the horizontal tail surface.
I'd say there are two differents types of vehicles depicted here. The "speed boat/WIG, but with water propeller" and a "twin hull seaplane". The latter being the one with the central pylon mounted air propeller and larger wing span. This is in fact very similar to what I came up with. I don't see why it would not be capable of flight out of ground effect. I just hate pylon mounted engines, totally ruins the appearance. The engine on an inverted Vee tail I find at least bearable, but even in my model it needs very long wires for the electric motor.
 

Kingfisher

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yeah I know what you mean !!its a radical thing that's for sure ! looking at the hull its a very strange type of a tunnel !that obviously worked ! and did most all of the things I been on about since day one and will keep on about forever more .
My interest in planes has taken aback seat of late because im back in nz for a few months !!
Not all that strange, it seems the common sense thing to do to a boat that is likely to get airborne. But these designs seem to go further than the boats that our friend Juergen from Sweden had posted links to, although they don't look as good. Altogether a bit like an evolutionary chain: boat, winged boat, wings in ground effect plane, seaplane...

I also find the L-shaped cross section of the floats interesting in the twin hull seaplane arrangement.
 

tunnels

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Not all that strange, it seems the common sense thing to do to a boat that is likely to get airborne. But these designs seem to go further than the boats that our friend Juergen from Sweden had posted links to, although they don't look as good. Altogether a bit like an evolutionary chain: boat, winged boat, wings in ground effect plane, seaplane...

I also find the L-shaped cross section of the floats interesting in the twin hull seaplane arrangement.
The modern day tunnel designs that are using powerful motors and reaching higher speeds these days are able to achieve the lift and use surface effect without wings and things because of better understanding of aerodynamics and designs
 

Himat

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Hello Qxef, is this article available in English or German? Are there any videos of these boats/planes (I will have a look, too)? Thanks for posting this, I have often wondered why nobody has considered applying aircraft principles to race boats, but obviously these guys have done it.
In the book: Russia's Ekranoplans, The Caspian Sea Monster and other WIG craft (Amazon.com: Russia's Ekranoplans: The Caspian Sea Monster and other WIGE Craft - Red Star Vol. 8 (9781857801460): Sergey Kommissarov: Books) there is some information on both the ELA-01 and the MC04.

The ELA-01 is the one with a pod engine at the bottom of post #145, designed by Moscow aviation institute. Designed as an Ekranoplan, but with sufficient power probably able to fly like an airplane.

The MC-04 (MS.04) pictured in post #146 was designed at the Krylow Central Shipbuilding Institute in St. Petersburgh. A guess is then that the MC-03 in post #145 is an earlier prototype from the same institute.
 

tunnels

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that motor you keep referring to is just a racing outboard with long megaphone exhausts sticking out the back ! and because it has so much winged area its able to fly in surface effect !! most ordinary boats can get to the stage of being airborne if it goes fast enough and if the hull dead rise is shallow enough the air pressure is holding It up its not really flying as such!!
 

Kingfisher

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In the book: Russia's Ekranoplans, The Caspian Sea Monster and other WIG craft (Amazon.com: Russia's Ekranoplans: The Caspian Sea Monster and other WIGE Craft - Red Star Vol. 8 (9781857801460): Sergey Kommissarov: Books) there is some information on both the ELA-01 and the MC04.

The ELA-01 is the one with a pod engine at the bottom of post #145, designed by Moscow aviation institute. Designed as an Ekranoplan, but with sufficient power probably able to fly like an airplane.

The MC-04 (MS.04) pictured in post #146 was designed at the Krylow Central Shipbuilding Institute in St. Petersburgh. A guess is then that the MC-03 in post #145 is an earlier prototype from the same institute.
Thanks for sharing. Looks like a book worth having!
 
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qxev

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Hello Qxef, this article is available in English or German? Is there a video of these boats / planes (I'll have a look, too)? Thanks for posting this, I often wondered why no one has considered the application of the principles of planes race boat, but apparently these guys did it.
Hi, kingfisher
Unfortunately, information on these boats before the wing is extremely scarce
And I could not find a video contest with the participation of these machines
I could not contact the authors of developments that have successfully managed to build and operate these flying boats a summary based on an article in the journal


I felt about 150 models. we started from "aircraft" concept REAlekseyev, but to apply the pattern of "composite wing". In addition, Alekseeva feathers for some reason of the very far back, we also ship more compact. All this is very thin. Excessive wind resistance even lead to growing oscillations. The task is complicated by a strong mutual influence of the height and angle of attack on the stability of the movement, and if you manage to achieve a good result in the same mode, on the other resistance was broken. The first test of the scheme was unsuccessful. I tried to get the model to fly off the screen in all modes, but could not, stability has been achieved only at a distance from the screen. prototype, however, began to build, he did not put on the races, "Koenig", and usually "Vihr- 30"; But the first model "MS-1", the master of sports G.Belousovym managed not to fly, but we were able to check in hydrodynamics acceptable scheme. The second model was developed based on long-term emission tests. Firstly, she also did not want to fly. We had to fight off dozens of models catapult modification of foam, before being able to achieve sustained flight above the floor. With regard to the propeller were doubts: diameter - 170 mm, in water at the same time about 100; It seemed rather small variations in height, and it will begin to weaken, or weighting, but then, suddenly, practice has shown that it is all true. scooters Construction series conducted at the plant DOSAAF "Patriot" in the ordinary playgrounds wooden technology - from aircraft plywood insert fiberglass.


First a melted "MS-2" was piloted by Vadim Pliev on the basis of "Patriot" in the Lake of Borodino in 1986. and the ship was able to fly against the wind"MS-3" has already gone into the race. In the measured mile at once got the speed 157.5 km / h, with world record for scooters class OB, equal to 158.2 km / h, and this without selection of special screws
With 350 cc "MS-3" we made a test output, and a week later went to the Cup of Russia in Grozny. There was a rectangular distance, and I unofficially recorded an average speed of 127 km / h - the same as in Chermashentseva record holder in the 500 cc class. The feeling in the race quite unusual: the exhaust gas, but you still no one is catching up! But winning on the "MC-3" I had only socialist countries Friendship Cup in 1988 in Tallinn, and the world record was not installed. Then there was a strong wind, and some competitors just "flew", and I came. Scooter ruled on two levels: on the route - a vertical wheel associated with the engine, and height - flaps to compensate, for example, the impact of wind. I climbed all the motor manual machine 90 mm vertically, allowing to hold the screw in the water while lifting and retain focus. Management was particularly if a catamaran is necessary to make sure that it is pressed against the water, the "aircraft" had a special "lift", otherwise it will not run.
with the "aircraft" no problems, in turn were very stable. Although it happened at gas dump before the turn began to ricochet, and "catch" of the water managed immediately. Subsequent modifications to overcome these shortcomings, were in turn have a full stroke. On the straights it was possible, generally speaking, just blink and give full throttle - no special management skills not required - of the nine test-riders on them no one turned over. Although the setting is very thin wings, fairly small changes, and flight could misaligned. Ever flew to a height of 0.5 - 1.0 m, and thus normally alight on water
Already in the "MS-3" we had flaps controlled by the left for improving cornering.
 
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Q

qxev

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All these machines belong to the class "combined wing", developed by Robert Bartini aviakonstuktorom
This constructor surpassed even the famous Alekseeva
Alekseev built WIG "Caspian Monster" 500 tons ..
But then Alekseev admitted Bartini design for a more advanced type of aircraft
This fact was recorded in the history of aviation




http://www.mukhamedov-aircraft.com/pages/show/projects/ela_1











It is the most advanced model of the design bureau named Alexeyev

 
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Q

qxev

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In 1977, young teachers and university staff I.V.Chepurnyh, V.A.Makarov, N.N.Nadezhkin V.G.Nosov and started the construction of the new ELA WIG-13, the design of which tried to take into account the experience of the previous operation devices. The pre-built and tested a series of pulse patterns. Model shoots rubber bands and visual observation was carried out for its behavior depending on the model and the alignment angles of the horizontal tail. The most resistant composite wing turned the mid-consoles.
Next it was built model of the original WIG, made in the scale of 1: 5, which dragged behind a boat-towing. Full-sized device created by a modular principle, when the relative position of units (of center, consoles, feathers, floats, cabin, power plant) can be changed within certain limits, with minimal design modifications. In addition, the load on all units were connected to the power center-the caisson (box), thereby creating a very light and rigid structure. It was decided to abandon the blowing, as it reduces the craving screw that and so lacked for takeoff. Therefore, the engine MT-9 power 36 hp with gear and a pusher propeller diameter were placed on top of center. The take-off weight of the device was 280 kg, wing area - 12 m2.
To improve safety of flight and to facilitate the on-screen controls on ELA-13 system used direct control lift, rigidly interconnected ailerons and elevator, as well as set the sensor separation from the water with the sound signal. WIG craft was tested in the summer of 1978 and 1979. in the Amur channel Behrend near Pioneer Camp "Amurchonok."
According to tests in 1978, when they were made two unsuccessful attempts flight in screen mode, spent finishing the design. Centering device changed by moving the cockpit and forward propulsion, increased the area of ​​the horizontal tail, horn removed compensate for handlebars height significantly increased stiffness control wiring in the pitch channel. The result was a winged PE-13. In 1979 it was carried out a few dozen operations. The device showed good stability and control modes for both near the screen (10-20 cm of water), and away from it (up to 10 m). When flying snake roll angle reached 150, the speed of flight - up to 110 km / h. Flown WIG V.G.Nosov that the specialty was an aeronautical engineer, not a test pilot. During the tests, it turned out that each height there is a range of speeds and angles of attack sustained movement. If the speed of the small height of the machine is not kept, making long-period oscillations in the screen, with dynamic airbag prevented ELA-13M touch the water.
 
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