Alert on Azalea LLC and Bill Clapp

Discussion in 'Corvair' started by William Wynne, Mar 18, 2015.

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  1. Nov 21, 2015 #101

    ekimneirbo

    ekimneirbo

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    Nice video Dale. Looks like a lot of :)very :) happy :) people :roll: to me. My advice to TahoeTim and
    Pistoncan,.....don't believe everything you read and only half of what you see. If you follow that
    advice, there are still a lot of smiling faces in the video. Why not attend one of the colleges and
    see for yourself?
     
  2. Nov 21, 2015 #102

    TahoeTim

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    You miss my point. I am also a business owner and my reputation is key. However, I would never publicly trash my competitors all over the net as WW has done. He seems to have a big issue with a former employee. I don't care how great he is, his desperation to squash competition tells me all I need to know. Why not take the high road and improve your reputation and ignore Clapp?

    Our hobby seems to attract some that like to poop in their own nest and run everyone off. I will never attend a college or put my life in the hands of such a person that may attack me next.
     
  3. Nov 21, 2015 #103

    ekimneirbo

    ekimneirbo

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    While you have a valid point about business reputations, shouldn't the decision as to
    which engine is the absolute best choice for YOUR airplane be the deciding factor...
    rather than the completely irrelevant fact that two competitors that you have never
    met have had an internet hissy fit? Apparently both of them have many satisfied
    customers too....or they couldn't continue to operate for very long. Since you own
    your own business, I would think you have to make business decisions occasionally
    to deal with people you don't like....but its the best choice for your company. Why
    base your engine choice on anything other than performance?As far as I can tell
    most everyone using any of
    these companies products seems to be satisfied with them.
     
  4. Nov 21, 2015 #104

    cheapracer

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    Of course you could personally stop bringing the thread back to the top.

    Let those wild horses go, be a rebel, dare to ignore the thread.
     
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  5. Nov 21, 2015 #105

    FritzW

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    This is the perfect thread to illustrate everything the "Art of Argument" is talking about.

    I'm only following it to keep up with Cheapracer's zingers :gig:

    ...and to take notes on "how to take the high road" from Bill Clapp.
     
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  6. Nov 21, 2015 #106

    stevel

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    Why both? I wouldn't ban either yet, but see the reason for the first. I'm completely lost on your reason for wanting Bill banned?
     
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  7. Nov 21, 2015 #107

    pistoncan

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    Using your own advise, I should believe half of what I see in the video. Which I do.

    My engine is done and running. (well, I might add) It appears you assume I have had no dealings with WW. I have. I built my engine with the help of WW's manual, with his black hub and his safety shaft. The problem comes when you cross the person by rejecting his method or advise. Then you are wrong.

    I also commend his commitment to holding the (no longer) free workshops. A lot of good people have advanced their knowledge of and confidence in their corvair engines due to his efforts.

    I condemn his efforts to quash competition by slandering a person, who I know from personal experience to be, of the highest moral character on this forum. William Wynne started this bill****. Bill Clapp has never used this forum to say anything other than to defend himself.

    For those who say they would not deal with either person because of this thread, I would ask, Why would you not deal with someone who has been attacked by a bully and has done nothing but defend himself?

    Again I ask the moderator, Topaz, IF the first post was in violation of the forum rules, Why wasn't/hasn't it shut down?
     
  8. Nov 21, 2015 #108

    mcrae0104

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    You must have missed the part where Mr. Clapp attempted to discredit Mr. Wynne by stating that he's not a pilot and that he does not fly behind his products, both of which are not true. Other than that, yes, he's been a gentleman here at HBA. (I will note that in saying this I've been unkind on a few occasions on this forum myself; nobody's perfect.)

    What's going on in this thread and others is only the tip of the iceberg of the longstanding questions about the credibility of various Corvair conversion parts makers. If you wish to have a more full understanding of the history, go and read the archives of the corvaircraft list. You will find it enlightening. Even better, seek out and meet some of the knowledgable people regarding Corvairs, such as Bill, William, Dan Weseman, Mark Langford, Pat Panzera, etc. I found doing so very helpful. The Internet is in some ways a poor medium for judging credibility.

    If, for example, one wanted to understand World War II, you wouldn't simply invite Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, and FDR to an Internet forum and take their opinions at face value--you would look at their actions, study the political, cultural, and historical context, and the like. (I'm not likening anyone here to Hitler or Stalin, so please don't get hung up on that.)

    I think the Corvair section of HBA would be more productive if we focused on factual information about the engines and various approaches that are possible, and point interested individuals to more Corvair-specific forums and sources of information. These debates have already occurred elsewhere and I don't see any point in recreating them here.
     
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  9. Nov 21, 2015 #109

    dcstrng

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    The truth is (or at least it is my opinion...), we in the "Corvair community" (whatever that is -- just made it up) are very fortunate to have as much talent to draw from as we do. It is unfortunate that we've had such an open collision of personalities, but that happens -- and since the days of Bernie Pietenpol, the Corvair community has been a niche powerplant -- the fact that is has matured into an acceptable power is largely due to the work, talent and sweat of the personalities seemingly bumping heads in this forum (largely, as is often the case on in the virtual world, through the voice(s) of customers/supporters/ admirer than the principals).

    Like pistoncan (indeed through his patient tutelage) I read a lot of the William Wynne writings -- and also have several of his DVDs; they are a well-known resource for anyone contemplating buying, or actually building, a Corvair engine on their own -- which was my original intent. As it worked out, Bill actually built my engine (which is sitting in my shop, waiting for me to get the project ready to accept it). I can't tell you how many emails and phone calls went back and forth between Bill and myself, but there was a ton of them over several years as I strayed from one project and building scheme to another (Buttercup, then to a long-wing CH701, then to a Sonerai and finally back to a Buttercup -- they are now boxed or hanging from the rafters in my shop, tempting me...), dilly-dallied and waffled on how much of the engine I was going to build.

    In the end, I boxed up what Corvair parts I had collected as well as a few unfinished pieces and shipped them to Bill -- after more waffling and indecisiveness on my part (over another year), we settled on a date for me to pick up the engine (by now I'm well aware of the Corvair hysteria seeming rampant in the virtual world -- this thread being a prime exhibit).

    I should have ignored it all -- I showed up late morning after driving all night, Bill had the cold engine sitting in the test stand (cold, I felt it). I'm not sure what I was expecting, but I will tell you his little factory is almost surgically clean divided into 2-3 separate bays, as well as parts areas, depending on whether it is composite-parts fabrication (his own Saberwing as well as parts he makes for certificated builders), airframe or engines... In any case, "my" engine started on the first bump and settled into the typical Corvair rumble -- he ran it up and down the RPM range and it stayed smooth, big grins -- after about 10-15 of demonstration, Bill shut it off -- allowed it to cool, and eventually we loaded my 100hp Azalea Spyder into a modest crate and then into my truck (3-4 years of indecisiveness, waffling and tentativeness had a successful conclusion -- within my budget !!).

    I'm not in a good position to compare and contrast the various builders out there and clearly other owners/homebuilders have had good experiences with William Wynne and others who both supply parts and expertise, and no small amount of encouragement -- for instance my CH701 engine mount is from Roy's garage, another respected name in this small community. The fact there may have been transient inaccuracies over time probably is the best affirmation that we're dealing with humans, rather than digital automatons... Frankly, we backyard hobbyists are extremely fortunate to have this much talent for our little Corvair niche, and anyone contemplating Corvair power should know there is plenty of dependable talent and know-how to draw from -- wearisome internet lore to the contrary.
     
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  10. Nov 21, 2015 #110

    Eagle

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    oops...
     
  11. Nov 21, 2015 #111

    ekimneirbo

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    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  12. Nov 22, 2015 #112

    don january

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    William Wynne: this is manual owner 8342. I have to ask in wonderment is HBA not worth your time and energy?Post #1 and #3 was yours. How about the thought of letting the forum read an alert on you? I would be glad to post with your permission. scaled_dbc4_120x80_878998-Wacey_Cathey_800__x_600_for_barnstormers_532b5f687f94a.jpg
     
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  13. Nov 24, 2015 #113

    DaveP

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    To all who wanted to see some of the allegations answered:

    One of WW's assertions was that Aeromax closed up and "effectively" left customers with no recourse. I found the video below that was posted on YouTube way back in 2009.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjgUagJfC3g

    Notice that Aeromax's customers were being directed to Clappscars.com (A website that is now gone) so that Bill could help any customers affected by the Aeromax shutdown. It can be hard to refute such claims after so much time, but the internet has a long memory.

    Dave
     
  14. Dec 3, 2015 #114

    stol

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    This is where I post a few comments on Engineers....:gig:
     
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  15. Jan 20, 2016 #115

    DaveP

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    I also believe in doing my own research.

    A quick search of the pilots database shows that WW did indeed get a pilot's license. He received a sport pilot's license in 2010. It does not appear that he held any other cert. (Perhaps someone knows how to verify previous certs) so, Bill may not have been aware that WW had finally gotten a Sport Pilots Cert.

    A quick search of the aircraft data base reveals that WW owns an aircraft that was granted an airworthiness cert back in 2005. Since LSA was only instituted at the tail end of 2004, whether WW is flying his product would depend upon the original registration of the aircraft. (LSA or Exp, gross weight can't be changed once certified as airworthy)

    So, if "flying behind your product" is defined as able to solo your plane to events or simply on a daily basis, WW hasn't in the past. If you define it as being a passenger in a plane you built, I have seen him do that, but I think most, if not all, of his airframes came to him mostly complete. If his current plane was granted an airworthiness cert as an LSA, then perhaps his situation has changed. I don't think Bill intended to speak untruthfully.
     
  16. Jan 20, 2016 #116

    don january

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    Bill has always been a straight shooter with me.
     

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