Alert on Azalea LLC and Bill Clapp

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

don january

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
2,776
Location
Midwest
At the risk of perpetuating the thread drift... I never heard of the 3 cylinder inline Pops mentioned. Must have some funny vibrations if the stock crank was used. There have been a few 2 cylinder 1/3 Corvairs, but parts availability and cost and the smaller displacement make them less attractive than half VW engines. There has been some discussion on it here in the past.

Dana
Dana just thinking of the idle of that engine makes my teeth hurt.:roll: teeth.jpg
 

DaveP

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
47
Location
O'Brien, FL
Interestingly, the OP made no "personal" comments in this thread and the factual nature of the information contained in post #1 has not been called into question in six pages of discussion.
Perhaps you could ask a question.
 

pistoncan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
90
Location
Vienna, Missouri
Interestingly, the OP made no "personal" comments in this thread and the factual nature of the information contained in post #1 has not been called into question in six pages of discussion.
I don't think anyone questions the validity of what he said about Aeromax. From what I understand, Sonny was a piece of work. I doubt this is the first case of a single partner ruining the reputation of a business. That's all history.

I don't think a supplier should be allowed to attack another supplier on this forum. I doubt WW ever bought anything from BC. If a end user has a problem with the work or product of a supplier, this is the forum to state it. Otherwise, keep mum.
 

Pops

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
7,863
Location
USA.
At the risk of perpetuating the thread drift... I never heard of the 3 cylinder inline Pops mentioned. Must have some funny vibrations if the stock crank was used. There have been a few 2 cylinder 1/3 Corvairs, but parts availability and cost and the smaller displacement make them less attractive than half VW engines. There has been some discussion on it here in the past.

Dana
Just saw it one time at OSH. Never heard about it anywhere else. A side note-- MF tractor made a 3 cylinder gas engine in 1969. I have a 1968 MF.

Dan
 

Topaz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
14,077
Location
Orange County, California
Interestingly, the OP made no "personal" comments in this thread and the factual nature of the information contained in post #1 has not been called into question in six pages of discussion.
Re-read HBA RoC #9 and #10, and you'll see where the OP was out-of-bounds.

None of the OP's statements appeared to be personal experience, and the OP tagged Mr. Clapp with allegations involving Aerowerx that he did not back up with a ruling from a court of law. The events at Aerowerx might have been Mr. Clapp's fault, or they might have been the fault of the other person mentioned in this thread in post #83. A judge would've ruled on that, had any criminal or civil charges been brought. Since the OP mentions results from neither of those kinds of action, all we have here is allegation and hearsay. We don't do that here.

The point of HBA RoC #9 and #10 is to prevent exactly these kinds of claims. Post #16 is an outstanding example of the kind of "customer report" post we do allow. Personal experience, no accusations of illegal behavior that can't be backed up with a resolved court action.
 

fredoyster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
333
Location
Monterey Bay, CA
Topaz, let it be to the credit of this group and its moderators that the thread remains up for people to learn from. There are other engine builders who have crashed businesses with their own and their customers' money too -- that they can recover and continue contributing to our hobby or industry or whatever it is, is a good thing. As with everything else in homebuilding, there are significant risks in dealing with small companies and I don't think anyone told us it would be easy or foolproof.
 

Midniteoyl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Messages
2,406
Location
Indiana
Interestingly, the OP made no "personal" comments in this thread and the factual nature of the information contained in post #1 has not been called into question in six pages of discussion.
The very act of making the post was 'personal'..
 

Midniteoyl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Messages
2,406
Location
Indiana
....

I don't think a supplier should be allowed to attack another supplier on this forum. I doubt WW ever bought anything from BC. If a end user has a problem with the work or product of a supplier, this is the forum to state it. Otherwise, keep mum.
Exactly.. The post was made, unsolicited, by a competitor, but somehow that doesnt make it 'personal'. I have a real mind to not just lock the thread, but delete it.
 

Bill Clapp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
300
Location
Valdosta Ga
Since the post was about me and my company - I know that it was personal and meant to be destructive as this is not the first time it has happened (and continues to happen) through other venues. I appreciate a platform though where actual questions can be asked and I have an opportunity to clear the air with honest answers. In many other forums the moderators choose sides instead of maintaining a set of principles that allow fair and equal treatment. I applaud the moderators here for their adherance to those principles.
Correct, to someones point above, that small businessess have a hard enough time learning and growing, to then have someone try to destroy it. My take on it has always to allow my product to speak for itself. It we spent our time focused on the product and its quality - the best product would sell if the service was matching. I am always open to answer any direct questions about our company and our products.
To return to another point about the orginal post, the OP mentions names of other people and companies in an attempt to persuade people that these persons have an issue with us or our company. If you actually asked these people directly about any problems between my company and them there would not be any. These companies (as the OP) have never been a recipient of any of our services or products directly. When I have seen these posts before it was always more an opportunity of throwing as much poop on the wall and seeing what might stick hoping the smell is enough to drive people away.
We just finished a very successful weekend of an engine workshop here with over a dozen serious engine builders, with lots of learning and good fellowship. That is the focus of where we all should be. Encourage safe engine/aircraft building and safety in flying. If I have to pull out the bucket every once in a while to wash the walls down in order to have this experience - so be it. Wish it didn't have to be so....

....was that too graphic? :)

That being said...I have to get back to work on the turbo engine build for the Saberwing....the Saberwing LSA airplane (hope to fly to Sun N Fun), finish design work on the XF Design that I will start building early next year, and a possible motorglider version for end of next year....lots on my plate so I really dont spend much time chasing drama.... I got planes to build!
 

don january

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
2,776
Location
Midwest
Midniteoyl: As of this moment there is 4,603 veiws and 87 replys to this thread and I feel this has been an active post. There is probably only a hand full of builders,pilots that have had any real dealings with both The origainal poster and the person the Alert was focused on. Dave "ZIP" Goodman and I being a couple with hands on, it is healthy to the forum to read facts about the Alert requarding both suppliers. (facts only) I personally would like to see an update from the OP, not as a pissing match but a chance for both involved to clarify their thoughts on this matter. IMO pawnee.jpg
 

mcrae0104

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
3,207
Location
BJC
The very act of making the post was 'personal'..
Fair enough. And upon re-reading the thread, Mr. Clapp says he does indeed support the old customers, so I was wrong that no one had contested the claims of the OP.
 

TahoeTim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
109
Location
South Lake Tahoe. Ca.
This thread is ridiculous. I am following it because I am interested in building a fourth plane with a vw or corvair. Based on this thread alone I will be avoiding both men. I guess that drives me to something vw powered. I wouldn't put my life or my passenger's life in jeopardy with products from either company. I come to this conclusion solely on the hunch that the truth is somewhere in the middle.
 

rbrochey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
1,503
Location
Gallup, New Mexico USA
This thread is ridiculous. I am following it because I am interested in building a fourth plane with a vw or corvair. Based on this thread alone I will be avoiding both men. I guess that drives me to something vw powered. I wouldn't put my life or my passenger's life in jeopardy with products from either company. I come to this conclusion solely on the hunch that the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I totally agree... I have decided to use VW partly based on following this thread. I'm buying an engine from Mr January and rebuilding it per the Falconar plans for a Little Demon. :ban:
 

Bill Clapp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
300
Location
Valdosta Ga
Tahoe Tim, My suggestion is to inform yourself about the engine you want to go with - and all aspects of it as much as is feasible. I have flown many VW powered aircraft and owned a turbo-Revemaster KR2 back when I had less grey hair than now. I chose the Corvair direction because it is a stout engine and hands down beats the VW for the performance I was looking for. I can fly and maintain our corvair conversion cheaper than I can the VW at this time because of the business. It allows me to pursue all my new airplane designs and building I want to do. Dont be discouraged by anybodys drama or attitude but research and learn for yourself. We encourage people to attend our competitors colleges and learn all they can as well as visit our facility and look at us. We prefer honest questioning rather than blind following. You are the final arbitor abour your own safety and choices...manage your risks properly and in balance.

Don't be discouraged! Build and fly safe!
 

pistoncan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
90
Location
Vienna, Missouri
Re-read HBA RoC #9 and #10, and you'll see where the OP was out-of-bounds.

None of the OP's statements appeared to be personal experience, and the OP tagged Mr. Clapp with allegations involving Aerowerx that he did not back up with a ruling from a court of law. The events at Aerowerx might have been Mr. Clapp's fault, or they might have been the fault of the other person mentioned in this thread in post #83. A judge would've ruled on that, had any criminal or civil charges been brought. Since the OP mentions results from neither of those kinds of action, all we have here is allegation and hearsay. We don't do that here.

The point of HBA RoC #9 and #10 is to prevent exactly these kinds of claims. Post #16 is an outstanding example of the kind of "customer report" post we do allow. Personal experience, no accusations of illegal behavior that can't be backed up with a resolved court action.
OK, If the original post was in violation, Why didn't you/haven't you closed down the thread?
 

Daleandee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
988
Location
SC
This thread is ridiculous. I am following it because I am interested in building a fourth plane with a vw or corvair. Based on this thread alone I will be avoiding both men. I guess that drives me to something vw powered. I wouldn't put my life or my passenger's life in jeopardy with products from either company. I come to this conclusion solely on the hunch that the truth is somewhere in the middle.
One thing I've learned in life is that I don't necessarily have to like someone to learn something from them. I also have learned (maybe too late in life) that when people are fighting among themselves ... it ain't my fight so stay out of it. In regards to whether you would deal with either or neither person you should understand that the Corvair movement doesn't belong to any one person.

My Corvair engine was built for me by Dan Weseman utilizing parts and procedures developed, tested, and sold by William Wynne. Dan now has many Corvair engine parts on his web site. He has advanced many upgrades (5th bearings, cranks, Dynamo mounts, baffling, cowlings, etc) for Corvairs and he can and will build an engine for you if you don't care to assemble it yourself. Dan is a super human being and most likely will carry forth the Corvair torch for many years as his own aircraft design, the Panther, uses the Corvair in the prototype.

I've been to several of WW's Corvair colleges and have spoken to William a few times. I have had nothing but an extremely positive experience with both William and Dan have found them to be forthright and honest. I know nothing of Mr. Clapp except what I read on the internet. I trust the long years of development and work that William, and now Dan, have put into bringing the Corvair together as a reliable, smooth and powerful auto conversion for aircraft.

As an example: years ago the stories circulating around the web about John Monnett and his temper were enough to make a person run from his aircraft designs. But after meeting, talking with, and dealing with the man I found that, yes, he was very opinionated (as many great designers are) but that is because he had spent so much time figuring things out that he became a bit annoyed when those with no understanding of the process kept trying to convince him that he was doing it wrong.

This goes back to my opening point ... when strong personalities are going back and forth, I like to get out of the way. Again, I don't have to like these folks to realize that they have done a lot of work that I can benefit from. I do look to see who has the longest and most successful track record as I want to be able to get parts, service, and technical help in the years to come. I can only do that with a company that is in it for the long haul.

Dunno if this helps at all ...

Dale Williams
N319WF @ 6J2
Myunn - "daughter of Cleanex"
120 HP - 3.0 Corvair
Tail Wheel - Center Stick
Signature Finish 2200 Paint Job
109.4 hours / Status - Flying
(Myunn is in the "Completions" section of Kitplanes for November 2015)
[video=youtube;S_PVD1M1AXo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_PVD1M1AXo[/video]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bill Clapp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
300
Location
Valdosta Ga
Dale, I know what you mean about John Monnett. I flew the Corvair Sonex I built to Oshkosh in 2007 and met up with him and Jeremy...He was defenitely opinionated but he did spend time and listen to me about the changes we had made the "his" airplane. Jeremy was much more open and real inquisitive about what we had learned and and where we thought improvements could be made. Too bad we lost him. However the airplane performed very well for its design intents. Not really my kind of bird but thats okay. We help out lots of people we lots of different birds. I have found Dan W to be staight up with me and honest in dealings with. We have serviced and worked on several motors with his and WWs components. Their mods are different than ours but like Sonex, work well for the design intents. Our designs are different and work well too. I am just hoping for an "open" arena for all the neat ideas out there, such a Magnificent Machine, Roys Garage, Falcon, Garrett and many others to come that have novel ideas and are willing to put some stake in the game. Maybe we can all learn something new and enjoy/celebrate other peoples skills and talents.
 

WonderousMountain

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
1,853
Location
Clatsop, Or
Moderation, discussion of moderation, rules of moderation and reasons of rules of moderation, moderators and immoderate activities are not for general thread discussion.

For instance, I am long overdue for a ban, but it hasn't happened, and I didn't just discuss it. :ermm:
 
2
Top