AirVenture 2022: Where have all the Ultralights gone?

[rv7charlie]

RV transition training

 

[KeithO]

Read the EAA article and look at the date. Stuff published in 2015 is no longer valid.

 

[rv7charlie]

Read the EAA article and look at the date. Stuff published in 2015 is no longer valid.

You mean this part (from your earlier post)?

LODAs issued under this system will not allow rental of the aircraft to the general public. Those LODAs, issued for transition training and other targeted operations, will continue to be issued per the guidance in FAA Order 8900.1.

Ya gotta read the whole thing; not just what's bolded.

 

[BBerson]

It can be a factory built, homebuilt, whatever. I was seriously interested in going that route. Design a neat, simple little Part 103 UL. Design and build a two seat version of that as a trainer. Sell them a Part 103UL and train the buyer at the same time. I think what made it a non-starter was that the previous generation of UL instructors bristled at the notion of actually having to get a certificate. Understandable.

Nope. Must be an SLSA factory built. That was the whole point of Light Sport. They FAA could have just required the simple Instructor certification but no, they required the full blown airworthiness process, manufacturing documentation, etc.

 

[Dana]

The LODA still exists as far as I know. You can take a 2 seat "high drag/low mass" machine with an empty weight of 500lbs or less and a top speed of less than 87kn ( I forgot what other restrictions there were) and use it legally to give paid instruction. Only requirement was the instructor had to be at least a Sport Pilot CFI. It can be a factory built, homebuilt, whatever. I was seriously interested in going that route. Design a neat, simple little Part 103 UL. Design and build a two seat version of that as a trainer. Sell them a Part 103UL and train the buyer at the same time. I think what made it a non-starter was that the previous generation of UL instructors bristled at the notion of actually having to get a certificate. Understandable.

I don't think more than a dozen or so of those LODAs were ever issued.

I think the real problem is that to get the blanket LODA (not the individual one that's easy to get), the applicant has to show that no suitable SLSA is available and present a complete syllabus for training. That's where I think the old BFI organizations dropped the ball after the exemptions went away; they could have kept on selling training materials to LODA applicants.

Nope. Must be an SLSA factory built. That was the whole point of Light Sport. They FAA could have just required the simple Instructor certification but no, they required the full blown airworthiness process, manufacturing documentation, etc.

If it's SLSA you don't need a LODA.

 

[BBerson]

I was talking about primary instruction, not transition. If you are talking about primary instruction in a self-designed EA-B, who has a LODA for that?

 

[KeithO]

I was talking about primary instruction, not transition. If you are talking about primary instruction in a self-designed EA-B, who has a LODA for that?

If it is for YOU the owner/builder, the LODA takes 24hr. But not renting out the plane to anyone else. It allows you to pay an instructor to give you training in your airplane. Then you have to find an instructor that is willing and able when you cant get any insurance (second part of the problem)

 

[Barnstormer]

But ... there might be a solution! Lee Fisher is currently working on something that might help beginners to learn to fly FAR103 without the need for a two-seater. He made a modern version of the primary glider concept. Look it up on Facebook "Project First Flight"

You launch it with a quad (or motorbike). You get the student slowly higher and higher. From crow hop to a few feet to a few yard to higher. Each tow a bit higher if he has enough control. This is a low cost type of training. First straight lines, than slowly soft turns and still land in the same direction. Once more confident, the student can do a 360. This type of training has been used in Luthuania (spelling) for more than a decade now. They train kids that way over there. Lee Fisher is trying to make a USA-variant of that idea.

The glider has removable wings that can be mounted in a few minutes.

View attachment 128393

This looks like a B1-RD without the engine.

 

[rv7charlie]

Man, the water here has gotten so muddy I'm beginning to wonder if I could walk on it.

 

[BJC]

Man, the water here has gotten so muddy I'm beginning to wonder if I could walk on it.

You are good, Charlie, but not that good.


BJC

 

[Hawk81A]

The dude that walked on water didn't need an airplane (or < 254 LB "vehicle") - Dennis

 

[rv7charlie]

You are good, Charlie, but not that good.


BJC

Kinda depends on how much muddier it gets, doesn't it?

 

[Gary Hogue]

Just find an instructor, or experienced pilot with a taildragger, the smaller the better, and go fly with them. A couple of hours in a Cub will teach you all you need to know for most ULs. It would be nice to have some aeronautical knowledge, but, no license means just that.

Well, no dice so far. Left a detailed web form and phone message at Steve Krog's Cub Air Flight last week (out of HXF), so fingers crossed on a response this week. Did a search of 'ultralight' on the National Association of Flight Instructors web site - nada.

Interestingly, almost all of the sage advice seen in print is a Lincolnesque (and sensible), "He who flight instructs himself has a fool for an instructor." On the other hand, I'm amused by the number of seasoned GA people who fondly recollect their ultralight experience as being self-taught. The twinkle in their eye and wink, along with the difficulty finding ultralight instructors, sometimes makes me wonder...

 

[BJC]

Left a detailed web form and phone message at Steve Krog's Cub Air Flight last week (out of HXF), so fingers crossed on a response this week.

I’ve been impressed with Steve’s approach to instructing through reading his column in SA. Another good one is Greg Koontz. His site Welcome to Greg Koontz Aviation!
doesn’t mention basic training now, but you might want to try him if Steve is too busy.

I'm amused by the number of seasoned GA people who fondly recollect their ultralight experience as being self-taught. The twinkle in their eye and wink, along with the difficulty finding ultralight instructors, sometimes makes me wonder...

You can stop wondering; they are the survivors.


BJC

 

[Gary Hogue]

I’ve been impressed with Steve’s approach to instructing through reading his column in SA. Another good one is Greg Koontz. His site Welcome to Greg Koontz Aviation!
doesn’t mention basic training now, but you might want to try him if Steve is too busy.

You can stop wondering; they are the survivors.


BJC

Thanks for the reference!
Yeah, probably like the 100-year-olds that drank whiskey and smoked cigars since the roaring twenties without ill effect.

 

[reo12]

The LODA still exists as far as I know. You can take a 2 seat "high drag/low mass" machine with an empty weight of 500lbs or less and a top speed of less than 87kn ( I forgot what other restrictions there were) and use it legally to give paid instruction. Only requirement was the instructor had to be at least a Sport Pilot CFI. It can be a factory built, homebuilt, whatever. I was seriously interested in going that route. Design a neat, simple little Part 103 UL. Design and build a two seat version of that as a trainer. Sell them a Part 103UL and train the buyer at the same time. I think what made it a non-starter was that the previous generation of UL instructors bristled at the notion of actually having to get a certificate. Understandable.

I don't think more than a dozen or so of those LODAs were ever issued.

Actually - a club member has a LODA for his Searay and another craft. He said the FAA takes a while to make a determination - generally over a month or so.

 

[Gary Hogue]

I’ve been impressed with Steve’s approach to instructing through reading his column in SA. Another good one is Greg Koontz. His site Welcome to Greg Koontz Aviation!
doesn’t mention basic training now, but you might want to try him if Steve is too busy.

You can stop wondering; they are the survivors.


BJC

I see Mr. Koontz works out of Alabama - pretty far from my sweet home in Wisconsin!
Now I'm looking at glider training as a base for flying this simple, two-axis ultralight. There's a glider club out of HXF also.

 

[reo12]

I’ve been impressed with Steve’s approach to instructing through reading his column in SA. Another good one is Greg Koontz. His site Welcome to Greg Koontz Aviation!
doesn’t mention basic training now, but you might want to try him if Steve is too busy.

You can stop wondering; they are the survivors.


BJC

I'm one of the survivors. I have always strongly advised against self training. I had a forgiving plane - a Pterodactyl - yet still spent as much money on parts as instruction could have avoided. I damaged planes, lost flying time and had minor injuries that instruction may have guided me to making better choices of when to fly - and - I destroyed a great flying plane and hurt my self (broken ribs) not knowing about rotors. Time with an instructor may have prevented that harsh lesson.

 

[GeeZee]

Flight Training

Training The general public does not understand, in fact probably has not seen, a simple type of flying that requires no radios, warning lights, or navigation aids. While the use of the most modern...

stewartsaircraft.net

a little closer to WI.

Our Fleet - Region Flyers

They advertise in barnstormers and they have a champ

 

[Bigshu]

Well, no dice so far. Left a detailed web form and phone message at Steve Krog's Cub Air Flight last week (out of HXF), so fingers crossed on a response this week. Did a search of 'ultralight' on the National Association of Flight Instructors web site - nada.

Interestingly, almost all of the sage advice seen in print is a Lincolnesque (and sensible), "He who flight instructs himself has a fool for an instructor." On the other hand, I'm amused by the number of seasoned GA people who fondly recollect their ultralight experience as being self-taught. The twinkle in their eye and wink, along with the difficulty finding ultralight instructors, sometimes makes me wonder...

Yeah, you can read between the lines here. You're going to fly an ultralight vehicle right? No license or medical required right? Why are you still looking for a CFI? Any experienced pilot with a taildragger can take you up and help you get a feel for low and slow aircraft and taildragger ground handling. Are you planning to log your time in your UL vehicle? To what end? Don't get bogged down looking for unicorns. Find somebody who likes to fly, has the right aircraft, and understands you want to be safe in an UL. I'd be surprised if you can't find someone who would be up for it. Do you think all the hang glider folks on the sand dunes back in the day only learned the ropes from a CFI? It's like any other sport, if no license is required, you hang around with likeminded people, and if you aren't a PITA, they help you learn. To keep you safe and grow the sport.