Airplane for the Common Denominator

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Bigshu

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I think half the draw of four-seaters is not just size for bigger folks, but also the ability to load up and go places. Take the dog(s), take suitcases, etc.

There's a part of me that kinda wants access to a four-seater but I think the only use I'd have for it would be dropping our son off with his grandparents on the way out for a trip with the wife, or giving rides to him and his friends at the same time. To me, that's not worth the extra expense and loss of aerobatic capability.
I think it's probably more than half the draw. It cracks me up when people don't bat an eye at a single pilot in a two place, but look down their nose when they see a single pilot in a four place. Not sure what you mean about aerobatic capability. The Musketeer had a four place aerobat, probably some others. In an EAB, as long as it can take the projected loads, who says you can't do aerobatics?
 

Dana

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Have had 4-- 4 seat airplanes and will have someone in a back seat maybe a couple times a year. Just great for baggage.
I have a two seat airplane and have someone in the front cockpit maybe a couple times a year. Doesn't hold much baggate, either.

I can't see a Beech Musketeer of any type as a aerobat. Musketeer and Sundowner both fly's like driving a dump truck to me.

"As a plaything, the Aerobatic Custom Musketeer is expensive, no doubt about it. As a cross-country tool, however, it's not bad, and its 140-mph plus cruise makes it mighty useful. It's plush, it's comfortable, it's sexy, and it can do rolls, which makes it positively groovy."
 

Pops

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I respect what Bud has to say , but I have flown both the Musketeer and the Sundowner and I still say when flying one, all I can think about is a Mack Dump Truck. The Musketeer had the Cont 346, 165 Hp engine and the Sundowner the Lyc- 360, 180 Hp. I do like the 2 doors better than the Piper Cherokees. I also acquired a damaged Musketeer one time and parted it out and scrapped the aluminum.
 

Mitchell

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Basically all Zenith’s currently planes check off the originally boxes of this thread. Just pick your preference for speed and room. Probably why they are the best selling light kit brand, they just check off enough for a lot of people. A sonex, thatcher, or hummel would be a good choice too. Some Gyrocopter’s would be a good choice too.
 

rv7charlie

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Yet if you gave me a Zenith, it would be listed on Barnstormers ASAP (with a guilty conscience). And since I'm not of bubba proportions, I'd pick an RV4 over an RV8 every day of the week (all the RVs fly well, but the -4 flies much nicer than the -8, and has better ground manners). Piper/Cessna drivers are typically terrified of RV handling qualities.

Anyone seeing the prime number theme yet?
 

Tom DM

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One thing is for sure, the doom and gloom predictions will eventually come true if you wait long enough. Better get flying now, because TODAY is the "good old days".

+1

The only thing better yesterday or yesteryear is that we were younger.

And even if tomorrow might not look good, it will be better than today.

"So much universe, so little time" (T. Pratchett)
 

Jerry Lytle

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Beech did build an aerobatic Bonanza in 1970. It was a very limited edition of only five examples. Flying ran a review of it if I remember correctly.
 

gtae07

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Not sure what you mean about aerobatic capability. The Musketeer had a four place aerobat, probably some others. In an EAB, as long as it can take the projected loads, who says you can't do aerobatics?
There are a handful of aerobatic four-seaters, but they mostly look to be older certified ships (which takes them out of consideration for me). Looking at four-seat homebuilts it's even a smaller list--in fact the only one I can think of offhand with appropriate G-limits is the Velocity family. And from reading some reviews, it seems like the handling is not that "sporty"--for example the Kitplanes review of the Velocity XL notes "fairly heavy control pressures make the airplane stay where you put it in pitch and roll...The sidestick option might reduce the control movement and hence the leverage contributing to the control forces " and "Most Velocity pilots will seldom find themselves in close formation with other airplanes. Probably that’s a good thing: It is not the airplane’s strong suit. It is a challenging airplane to fly precisely in proximity to another airplane. "

So at least for my purposes, it's not aerobatic. The g limits might be, but it looks like the handling for enjoyable aerobatics and formation aren't there. But I've also been spoiled by doing those things in an RV-6.
 

1Bad88

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So... has anyone defined the "common denominator" yet?

I just can't wait to get started on coming up with brilliant sketches or wisdom-oozing existing airplane recommendations, to perfectly and precisely address whatever that common denominator actually is.
roadable 4 seater that cruises at 170kts., stalls at 30kts., and is aerobatic with a reliable engine.
 

challenger_II

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I have come to the realization that I am nowhere close to a "common denominator". Guess I had better quit flying...

So... has anyone defined the "common denominator" yet?

I just can't wait to get started on coming up with brilliant sketches or wisdom-oozing existing airplane recommendations, to perfectly and precisely address whatever that common denominator actually is.
 

DaveK

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So... has anyone defined the "common denominator" yet?

I just can't wait to get started on coming up with brilliant sketches or wisdom-oozing existing airplane recommendations, to perfectly and precisely address whatever that common denominator actually is.
Thank you for more succinctly stating what I was talking about.

Who exactly are we designing this airplane for?
 
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