AIR ATOS Wing - 3axis from a trike wing

Discussion in 'The light stuff area' started by hole in the ground, Dec 26, 2018.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Oct 29, 2019 #21

    henryk

    henryk

    henryk

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    krakow,poland
    =BKB1 sweep is 13 deg.,chord =1.2 m...

    -modyfied version BKB1-A (with triangular stabilizers is TUMBLE resistend )



    =very good idea,simple in realisation !
     
  2. Oct 30, 2019 #22

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    48
    I'll use your post, when i start the Thread about my project ; i
    do not want to wander ,(Off-Topic).

    I never flew an Atos glider. When i thermal with my friends
    who own the Atos , I can climb in a thermal "With" them
    but when we exit the lift ; they pull away from me Fast, like
    i'm flying a Paraglider. The Atos , was quite an improvement
    over the Exxtacy ; but the builders are proud of that design
    with a price-tag of over $ 20-k + !

    Bille
     
  3. Oct 30, 2019 #23

    jedi

    jedi

    jedi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    455
    Location:
    Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
    Does anyone on this list have experience with both the three axis and the hang glider version to make comments about the pros and cons of each version?

    Takeoff and landing field requirements. Comfort versus performance. Cost, transport and setup. Controlability and flight envelope limitations.
     
  4. Feb 8, 2020 #24

    henryk

    henryk

    henryk

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    krakow,poland
    -when can we see them ?
     
  5. Feb 9, 2020 #25

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    48
    I have 8 more weeks of work on my Hobie 21se , (turning it into a
    kite-boat, powered by a Paraglider) with an electric reel-out
    winch ; when it's done , then ALL my attention gets turned towards
    my powered glider project.

    So --- it will be sailing, and kiteboarding in South Padre island for winter ;
    motor gliding, and soaring , in Moore Idaho, for the summer months.
    Does that sound Boring to some ?? LOL

    Back On Topic :
    This design , using the ATOS wing , is what inspired me to place
    a tale on my project ; lots of problems related to pitching-moment
    are solved, for using different flap designs.


    Bille
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  6. Feb 10, 2020 #26

    Aesquire

    Aesquire

    Aesquire

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    976
    Location:
    Rochester, NY, USA
    No experience with the ATOS, but I can answer a few questions based on other machines.

    Comfort vs. Performance? Basically the more enclosed, the less fatigue, the more comfort and performance. That costs visibility, setup time, transport effort and weight. Which increases stall speed, mostly.

    Transport & setup?
    The bare wing fits on a roof rack. In a padded bag. That's the same for all versions.

    A basic open trike fits in the back of a minivan, with variation on folding compactness depending on brand & model. ( and again the more pod like, the more room it takes ) At a certain point, a small open trailer is called for.
    You'll want indoor storage for wing and trike.

    Add more fuselage, add more transportation hassle.

    Controlability and flight envelope limitations?
    Differences in skill set between weight shift and stick, but speed limitation is still the wing. Control is more than adequate in either case, inverted flight is discouraged. ;)

    Takeoff and landing field requirements?
    The biggest jump is between Hang Glider versions and anything with wheels & engine. Take off needs are radically different. :) And the Hang glider version needs very little room to land, since you either full stall/brake to a stand up landing, or roll a short distance on a wheels or skid ( depending if it's the triangle bar as Standard on an ATOS, or the supine cage as on an Exxtacy )

    Trikes and the "looks like a sailplane" version will need a few hundred feet of good runway, depending on power installed.

    Hope that helps, and as Usual PLEASE CORRECT any arrorrrs.
     
    Bille Floyd and jedi like this.
  7. Feb 12, 2020 #27

    jedi

    jedi

    jedi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    455
    Location:
    Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
    Thanks. That is what I was looking for and your answers agree with my impressions.

    Your over all preference?

    I like the off airport advantages of the hang glider configurations with a wheel or skid option for conditions where their assistance is needed.
     
  8. Feb 12, 2020 #28

    henryk

    henryk

    henryk

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    krakow,poland
    or PHANTOM rigid wing...
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Feb 12, 2020 #29

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    48
    The PHANTOM , was an Awesome rigid wing ; i don't
    "think" it was made as strong as the Atos ?

    Anyway -- i have (2) Exxtacys , and not a lot of money
    so i'll be using what i have on my project. Now if i ran
    into a nice Tandem Atos VQ ,(HA) ; not very likely
    with (2) fake legs . LOL

    Landing in a small aria, is important to me , and is
    why, all the interest, in the Fowler-flap design ;
    to use it fully, i'd need , to add a tail.

    BIlle

    PS : my Exxtacy, was built like a Tank, (strong) , and it's
    made for tandem weight ; i could do worst , and i Will be Happy
    when finished.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  10. Feb 12, 2020 #30

    henryk

    henryk

    henryk

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    krakow,poland
    =iff to replace EXTACY airfoils to the NACA8-H-12 (Kasper-wing),
    we can land and take off in VORTEX flow regime,much moore Cl, ="bird landing"...

     
  11. Feb 12, 2020 #31

    jedi

    jedi

    jedi

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,912
    Likes Received:
    455
    Location:
    Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
    Bird landing is only possible with bird tail or no tail at all.
     
  12. Feb 12, 2020 #32

    henryk

    henryk

    henryk

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    krakow,poland
    -I cant agree=with "aircraft" tail we can get AoA >30 deg. too !
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Feb 13, 2020 #33

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    48
    Tha Kasper wing , has a Lot of aria at the tips ,and it help
    out for those slow landings ; the Atos E-wing has less tip aria
    but has a Way better L/D than the Kasper wing. There is a
    trade-Off ; but the Atos will still land in a rather confined
    space , (less runway than an sgs 1-26).

    Of the two ; i'd go for the Atos. Now the Atos VX tandem glider
    will have the over-all aria to do landings like the Kasper-wing
    and Still have an awesome glide. The ATOS VX is a larger span
    - 46', higher performance glider certified at 550 lbs of payload.



    Bille
     
  14. Feb 13, 2020 #34

    henryk

    henryk

    henryk

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    krakow,poland
    =NOT exactly !

    =BKB1-A (wooden wing ) with AR=10 have L/D =allmost 30 !
    (with composites wing will be moore ...)
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Feb 14, 2020 #35

    Aesquire

    Aesquire

    Aesquire

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    976
    Location:
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Want to sell one Exxtacy? I'd change it to a powered trike configuration. They are real Unicorns. :)

    I still have legs, but the knees are titanium and plastic so I'm no longer planning on using them as landing gear. Prudence has me give up armored melee combat too. Darn it.

    And... The last straw, my hang glider got... MIssing. Stolen is the wrong term. It was in a buddy's garage, and the house was repossessed & his illness, my illness, and communication mix ups on timing led to me missing the event. I'm assuming most of the blame, my circus, my monkeys.

    So I'm starting from scratch.
     
  16. Feb 14, 2020 #36

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    48

    I was referring to the glider , You posted in the video :
    (Kasperwing 'Bird Landing) .

    I will really enjoy watching the video , of you landing that
    composite BKB1, like the Kasperwing that did the bird landing.
    When will it be ready ?

    @ Aesquire :
    You would be way better off, with a used Atos C model ; i've
    seen them as cheap as $4k.


     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  17. Feb 14, 2020 #37

    henryk

    henryk

    henryk

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,875
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    krakow,poland
    =composite BKB1-A wing have the same upper airfoil shape
    as alu/sail KASPERWING ultralight=the same property
    at >30 deg. VORTEX flow...
     
  18. Feb 14, 2020 #38

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Bille Floyd

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    48
    And i will enjoy seeing the video of it landing the
    same as in the video : "Kasperwing 'Bird Landing"

    I think the aluminum tube/sail kasperwing, will handle
    a bunch more abuse, than the composite one ?
     
  19. Feb 14, 2020 #39

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    6,886
    Likes Received:
    2,522
    Location:
    World traveler
  20. Feb 14, 2020 #40

    Aesquire

    Aesquire

    Aesquire

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    976
    Location:
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Thanks, I'll look around for one. At 200+ pounds I like bigger versions.
     

Share This Page

Group Builder
arrow_white