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Aerosport Engineering V-12 info

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J Galt

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Hello,
Could anyone here help me out with some contact info for Ole Ringstad with Aerosport Engineering? They have a really nice looking V-12 they're working on for aircraft use:

However, no one is responding on facebook and their website is not functional.

If anyone has hard tech specs that would be great too.

Thank you for any info you can provide.
Justin
 

macquistan

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What about the LS V12? Seems like a much cheaper alternative with all the benefits of a much larger parts supply.
 

wsimpso1

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What about the LS V12? Seems like a much cheaper alternative with all the benefits of a much larger parts supply.
You know of a PSRU that handle that kind of torque and horsepower drive a prop that will make good on all that power?
 

macquistan

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What about the Thunder Mustang's PSRU? It's made for the power, torque and prop size. It's available separately. I know the Falconar engine has had problems, but I've heard nothing bad ahot the PSRU.
 

rv7charlie

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My layman's understanding is that 90 degree V12s (what you get when you add 4 cyls to a V8) don't balance right. (Same issue with 90 degree V6 (truncated V8), resulting in balance shafts & weird crankshafts.) V6 & v12 need 60 degree V to balance properly.

Justin,

Is this just curiosity asking, or how much power do you really need? There are very few single engine airframes that can safely use more than ~350 HP. If the primary desire is 12 cylinders, have you looked at the BMW & Mercedes V12s? The BMW is lighter than an LS motor, and is good for >300 HP at relatively low rpm. They were installed in the 7-series cars, and can be had for almost nothing, because the car's integrated computer controlled everything is just about impossible to repair, which floods wrecking yards with the cars. A side benefit is a distributor on the end of each camshaft, allowing the engine to operate as 2 independent straight 6s.

Charlie
 

Rik-

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Is this just curiosity asking, or how much power do you really need? There are very few single engine airframes that can safely use more than ~350 HP. If the primary desire is 12 cylinders, have you looked at the BMW & Mercedes V12s? The BMW is lighter than an LS motor, and is good for >300 HP at relatively low rpm. They were installed in the 7-series cars, and can be had for almost nothing, because the car's integrated computer controlled everything is just about impossible to repair, which floods wrecking yards with the cars. A side benefit is a distributor on the end of each camshaft, allowing the engine to operate as 2 independent straight 6s.
It is a BMW motor according to the video. He's got a PSRU, some Motec, and some spray paint.

Seem's expensive for a $2K junk yard motor
 

J Galt

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At first I thought it was an independent design but then I caught that it is a BMW V-12 base with some mods. He's been pretty silent for awhile so I'm trying to figure out how it's progressing as I'm interested in the warbird replica type of stuff.

Anyone know what PRSU the Thunder Mustang uses?

Thank you,
Justin

My layman's understanding is that 90 degree V12s (what you get when you add 4 cyls to a V8) don't balance right. (Same issue with 90 degree V6 (truncated V8), resulting in balance shafts & weird crankshafts.) V6 & v12 need 60 degree V to balance properly.

Justin,

Is this just curiosity asking, or how much power do you really need? There are very few single engine airframes that can safely use more than ~350 HP. If the primary desire is 12 cylinders, have you looked at the BMW & Mercedes V12s? The BMW is lighter than an LS motor, and is good for >300 HP at relatively low rpm. They were installed in the 7-series cars, and can be had for almost nothing, because the car's integrated computer controlled everything is just about impossible to repair, which floods wrecking yards with the cars. A side benefit is a distributor on the end of each camshaft, allowing the engine to operate as 2 independent straight 6s.

Charlie
 

rv7charlie

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You might be able to find the source through an internet search of old magazine articles, but it probably isn't available any more, anyway.

I've got a buddy who's one of those rare hands-on mechanical engineers with his own machine shop. He's got a BMW engine, and bought a gearset from one of the airboat mfgrs to adapt to the BMW. The snag he hit is that a 2-gear reduction will turn the prop to the left, and serviceable left turning props capable of handling 350+ HP are 'rare as hen's teeth'. The prop is going to cost more than the entire engine conversion, and most of the airframe.

If I were headed down this path, I'd talk to Aeromomentum. I've never had any personal dealings with them, but I've never heard anything negative at all about their business practices, the owner is a real live engineer (unlike many alt engine/PSRU mfgrs), his products get installed in airboats (in some ways, a much more severe stress than a/c), and he is active on this forum. I think that he's mentioned in other threads that they have a 3-gear reduction that can handle 400 HP if the engine has 8 cylinders, so it might well work on the BMW and get the prop turning 'right'.

Charlie
 

wsimpso1

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What about the Thunder Mustang's PSRU? It's made for the power, torque and prop size. It's available separately. I know the Falconar engine has had problems, but I've heard nothing bad ahot the PSRU.
Thunder Mustang and Falconar engine are long dead items in the market, I suspect that all of their PSRU ever to be built have already been built.
 

wsimpso1

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My layman's understanding is that 90 degree V12s (what you get when you add 4 cyls to a V8) don't balance right. (Same issue with 90 degree V6 (truncated V8), resulting in balance shafts & weird crankshafts.) V6 & v12 need 60 degree V to balance properly.
Technically, V-8's have all sorts of balance flaws too, and they actually do just fine. Each of the six cylinder banks will nicely balanced, so the V-12 should feel pretty darned smooth. What remains is torsional vibration issues with odd firing. At 4000 rpm the V-8 has firing at 267 Hz (every 90 degrees), while the 90 degree V-12 has firing pulses alternating at 45 and 75 degrees, so the pulse train is a 50/50 mix 320 Hz and 533 Hz, both of which are higher than the V-8. Making the powertrain live with torsional vibration is likely easier than the V-8 once basic torque is covered in the design.

The big enabler for this engine will be a PSRU designed for 1000 hp. I can not afford one, but I sure would like to listen to it and watch while it flies by.

Billski
 

TFF

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The dream always is easy. Except for modern CAD making it easier to whittle out a new configuration, what is really different market wise of the LS12 and a Falconer? One is based on the LS; one is based on the Big Block Chevy. Neither one is based on 2000 hours of running; they are based on magazine articles for attention. Very cool in your cars and coffee rear engine super car that will travel 500 miles in its lifetime with a couple of burnouts. The falconer was designed for a car first; then found a different home. Tested for 2000 hours at full power three times? No because there is no money in that. A life run of 10-20 engines is not going to warrant that minimal testing.

The only thing I know about V12s first hand were the two XJSs I have had. They will blow the Turbo400 apart every 100,000 miles of normal driving. That little 5.3 v12 is harder on the transmission than the 396 V8.
 

rv7charlie

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My comments ('balance' being a redneck engineering catchall term for the issues) on the 90* V12 and V6 were based on what I read in aviation mags back in the TM's heyday, and what auto writers tend to say about engines like GM's 90* V6. No doubt the issues can be overcome; there were certainly a lot of 4.3L GM 6s built.

The airboat drive builders *claim* their drives can handle 1000HP. But as I said earlier, in what airframe could you safely use the engine? Maybe an M18 Dromader, or an Antonov AN2, but what else?

TFF,
Where does '2000 hours 3 times' come from? Certainly not the FAA; IIRC, 150 hours once is all that's required (in terms of actual testing) for certification. Car engines are tested *much* more strenuously.

Charlie
 

N804RV

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I suspect that if you got ahold of Dean Holt, he might be able to help you acquire one of the PSRUs. His website (Thundermustang.com) says the PSRU, made by HP Precision, will bolt up to a Chevy big and small block. Looks a bit pricey. In addition, he says he's improved the PSRU for the Falconer V-12.


All way out of my price range though...
 

TFF

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Homemade engine is on me. I would accept outcome. I have accepted outcome of me undersize grinding my Lycoming crank in my engine.
Real engine for sellable duty will have real testing. What the FAA needs is not one lucky run. ADs will catch up with you if you roll that way. The first time I saw a Falconer was in a red rear engined US super car.
Apples and oranges but the local Porsche guru gets about 60 hours of racing from an engine. Much more RPM and such. When I told him an airplane engine lasted 2000 his eyes glazed over. He bought a friends 911SC just for the crank. Scrapped the rest. Yes it was driving.
 

rv7charlie

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[snipped]
Apples and oranges but the local Porsche guru gets about 60 hours of racing from an engine. Much more RPM and such. When I told him an airplane engine lasted 2000 his eyes glazed over. [snipped]
60 hrs sounds about right for the upper levels of Reno Sport Class & F1 engines, too.

Traditional a/c engines' bottom ends can last far beyond 2000 hrs, but the average a/c engine flown by a typical owner will do well to get half that out of a set of pistons/cylinders, and it's not uncommon to get even less life out of a cam. That's largely due to disuse, of course.

Charlie
 
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