aeromomentum suzuki based engine

Discussion in 'GEO / Suzuki' started by don january, Jun 26, 2016.

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  1. May 2, 2017 #21

    cheapracer

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    It would be the Chinese built Daihatsu/Toyota KR series engine used in the ZotYe mini car. We have spoken about this engine before Mathew, that French guy sells them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_KR_engine


    Turbo a Daihatsu Charade 1.0? They have a balance shaft. Actually they came with a turbo stock on the Turbo model (surprise, surprise). I can buy them brand new here too.
     
  2. May 2, 2017 #22

    rv6ejguy

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    Raven did a good job taming the torsionals but some other users doing their own thing, didn't. In any case, I don't think there is so much demand any more for the G10 engines and Jeron isn't building them now as far as I know.
     
  3. May 2, 2017 #23

    rv6ejguy

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    Turbos make these and most auto engines much more viable for aircraft use. Balance shafts help but don't solve all the nasties when it comes to turning a prop through a redrive.

    I've run G10s on my test stand, never a big fan of 3 cylinders. Yup, they're light and durable but they shake a lot. Power to weight ratio is not that great without a turbo.
     
  4. May 2, 2017 #24

    cheapracer

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    I have a G10 in my shop. I'm surprised they shake that much with the balance shaft, I've driven a few of them here (the Chinese Charade was still being made just a few years ago, maybe even still), but never noticed.


    Yes, that's why I suggested a turbo. Short complete with flywheel and alternator weighs some 55kgs.

    There's a few Chinese manufacturers with interesting engines coming through now, turbo 3's etc.
     
  5. May 3, 2017 #25

    Pops

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    I flew my SSSC in formation with a Kite with a 3 cylinder and was impressed with the speed and performance.
     
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  6. May 3, 2017 #26

    cheapracer

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    Oops, that's the model of the entire car, Daihatsu Charade G10, same as the Suzuki's engine ID.

    The actual Daihatsu engine ID is CB20. 1.0, 3cyl with balance shaft.
     
  7. May 3, 2017 #27

    cluttonfred

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    Pops, is a Kite a model of homebuilt aircraft?

    cheapracer, what makes you think that the Aeromomentum AM10 would be Daihatsu/Toyota-based and not Suzuki-based like their larger engines? Suzuki is pretty well-know for the 3-cylinder motors.

     
  8. May 3, 2017 #28

    cheapracer

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    The engine pictured, and the 71 x 84mm bore/stroke in the specs at Aeromynameistoolong website are of the Toyota KR 1.0.

    Also the Toyota engine is made in China, the Suzuki engine in India.

    But mostly because I wrote it on the internet, so it must be true :ban:
     
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  9. Jun 3, 2017 #29

    rv6ejguy

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  10. Jun 5, 2017 #30

    pictsidhe

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    I think the Suzuki G10 lacks a balance shaft. Has anone used a BMW K75? They have a balance shaft and shouldn't be too heavy coming from a well made bike.
     
  11. Aug 28, 2017 #31

    cluttonfred

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    Did anybody check out these engines at Oshkosh this year or talk to Mark Kettering and company? I am particularly interested in news of the 1.0 liter, 3-cylinder, 75 hp AM10.
     
  12. Aug 28, 2017 #32

    mcrae0104

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    I talked with one of their guys briefly (not Mark) but didn't go very in depth as it's not an engine I'm considering. They touted lots of experience in airboats but I'd like to see more flight time before I could get really comfortable. (YMMV). Still they look pretty attractive.
     
  13. Sep 14, 2017 #33

    wsimpso1

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    I looked it over and talked with folks pretty hard at OSH. Most of it looks pretty well thought out.

    Couple things that make me less than happy:

    They appear to have left a big chunk of the automotive sensors, computer, and injectors in it. All that fruforal makes me nervous. Crank position pickup, throttle position, manifold pressure, injectors and box to compute injector open/close and spark seems way better to me.

    They use a rubber isolator between the flywheel and gearbox that does not bring down first order resonance low enough to allow a "normal" idle. Rotax 912 family have the same issue. Result is that you end up taxiing fast, like with the Rotax engined LSA's. Not awful, but brakes take a beating if you either want to or must taxi slow.

    I asked them about 180-200 HP, and they said they were working on it. Believe that when I see it.

    Billski
     
  14. Jan 3, 2018 #34

    aeromomentum

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    Hi Billski,

    The 1500 rpm engine idle seems fast the prop is just 580 rpm. Lycoming recommends 1000 rpm idle, maybe due to cam lubrication. All engines have their operational sweet spots but they are not the same.
    For a super simple FI system we offer the MicroSquirt system. It can run on even less sensors than you stated but also has inlet air temperature, coolant temperature and O2 sensor that are optionally used by the ECU. Without them it still runs well but just not as fine tuned to the current conditions.
    We are working on 2.0 turbo engine that from the manufacturer has versions up to 409hp. Our version is factory rated at 274hp. At first we will flat rate it to about 210hp but hope to move it back up to 260hp or more. The weight should be about 300lbs with everything but dry. The long block is 197lbs.

    Mark Kettering
     
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  15. Jan 3, 2018 #35

    Dana

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    Interesting... how does it compare to Subaru conversions?

    My daughter had to get rid of her Suzuki Aerio car even though she liked it and it was in generally good shape because parts simply became unavailable.

    Dana
     
  16. Jan 4, 2018 #36

    aeromomentum

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    The Aerio has a good reputation in much of the world but was a bit small for the US market. It uses the more modern M series engines that are DOHC, VVT, chain driven cam and now direct injection. These are great features for use in a car but not really useful or wanted for an aircraft engine since they add weight and only useful if you need to run the engine over a very wide range of power and RPM. One of the advantages of the G series engines is they were also used by Chevy so parts are super easy to find. Mark
     
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  17. Jan 4, 2018 #37

    aeromomentum

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    I don't know much about the Subaru conversions. The newer DOHC engines seem to be very heavy and large. The old push rod engines were fairly light and compact. The main reason we did not look much into the Suburu engines is because they are difficult to get new and we only work with new engines. This is also a problem with the Honda engines. Plus both of these companies keep changing their engines every few years so they are much harder to support. The Suzuki G series have been around for years and they are still being put into new cars today. I would estimate that they will still be making them until the end of the internal combustion car.
     
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  18. Jan 4, 2018 #38

    cluttonfred

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    Hi, Mark, thanks for your comments and great to have you posting here. I know the AM10 is not yet ready for prime time, but could you tell us more about that project? Is it a Suzuki block? Development goals, timeline? Also, I notice that for many of your engines you list three different power ratings as options. Could you explain, for example, the three different hp versions of the AM13? Thanks!
     
  19. Jan 4, 2018 #39

    aeromomentum

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    We are waiting on the gears for the new gearbox for the AM10. They are a long lead time item due to the involved process and small quantity. We hope to provide our alpha tester with the first engine in about a month and be ready to deliver to our beta customers after April. Our base AM13 and AM15 engines uses a combination of stock Suzuki internal parts and are optimized for peak power at 5800 rpm. Our high performance versions use higher compression pistons, different cam timing and lift, 5 angle valve and seat profile, bored valve seats, porting, polishing, coatings, different ECU tune, oil cooler, balancing and other things. This provides about 12% more power at that same 5800 rpm but is optimized for peak power at 6500 rpm were even more power is possible. So as is common we rate the high performance engines at two different RPMs. Mark Kettering
     
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  20. Jan 4, 2018 #40

    cluttonfred

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    Thanks, Mark. What base block is used for the AM10?
     

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