Quantcast

Aeromarine 60hp V-Twin Engine

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

Dana

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Messages
9,622
Location
CT, USA
Every one of these drive designs bother me not having a strut to support the prop side of the pulleys.
With the bearings inside the pulley, outboard support isn't a big deal as long as the shaft is robust enough. And the pulleys have to be far enough apart (pulley hub wide enough) for adequate support.
And, if you do, ask him about the torsional vibration modeling/analysis he does (hint: he doesn't. That's for the buyer to do, or not).
I don't think torsional issues are generally a big deal in this type of redrive with the prop sipnning on a fixed shaft, as opposed to redrives where there's some length of shaft to wind up between the driven pulley and the prop.
 

Stuffengineer

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
10
The Gaokin engine is around $2,500 and a red rive from Ace is 1,000..
Gaokin claims their engines are tested for 300 hrs. Have never heard what TBO is. They configure this engine for ATV's, snowmobiles and pumps. Would like to see a bunch of test hours, more than 300.
 

soupercooper

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
70
it IS the drive from Ace Aviation, It is the gaokin engine cloned from the rotax can am bombardier v-twin developed for UTV/ATV/snowmobile industry, it is the engine under testing and developed from Kevin Armstrong from factory-fit, Kevin shared his design and drawings with everyone and chip is taking it and selling it. Chip is NOT the innovator Kevin Armstrong is. take a close look at the hybrid drive photo and you'll see its been photo shopped, I know this engine and drive development VERY WELL, Ive been on board with this development over a year now.
 

soupercooper

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
70
if you don't want to deal with a Gaokin you can get rotax version, I dont know if you can get it new from Rotax as it probably OEM buyers only like can am, you can get used or refurb/rebuilt engines though I found on ebay, Kevin says the castings and quality look great for the Gaokin engine, my engine arrives any day now for my initial testing and development. Im on west coast right next to Oakland seaport. you need to add a lot of importing costs over any quote you get from any exporter. been there done that. engine proven in the UTV/ATV/snowmobile industry but now has to be proven for aircraft industry. as mentioned by other member Hisun UTV company out of Texas uses this engine in its UTVS for years now. Hisun WILL NOT sell engines outright. I will make sure Kevin gets the credit for this discovery , lets hope its a success story, we could use one! engine without radiator and coolant and oil is 92 pounds, redrive around 11 pounds, add weight for radiator, exhaust and liquids to get a ballpark final weight. EFI is made by Delphi, engine comes in two versions SO WATCH OUT, you want version WITHOUT CVT and gearbox/output shafts.
 
Last edited:

soupercooper

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
70
I have some re-drive product from ace aviation for another application and its VERY WELL DESIGNED and HIGH QUALITY and GOOD PRICES! BUT and this is a BIG BUT, the delivery times ARE TERRIBLE!, took me 3 to 4 months to get product from India, Ace blamed it on monsoon season, but Ive been collaborating with MANY other customers of Ace aviation and they have to same issue/problem. Ace pulleys are very light weight but strong and well engineered, Ive been a MECH ENG since 1985, ace uses a eccentric shaft for belt tensioning, ONLY issue or concern I have is the engine has a tapered shaft and ace makes an adapter to make it a straight shaft to accept the locking pulley hub they use in their design, that the only thing I dont like about this re-drive. it may be okay I dont know yet
 

rv7charlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
1,252
Location
Jackson
[snipped]

Every one of these drive designs bother me not having a strut to support the prop side of the pulleys.
[snipped]
This is a legit concern with 'traditional' engines like VWs, Corvairs, Subarus, etc. I suspect that it isn't as big a deal with the industrial engines, because the PTO end of the engine is specifically designed for the side (bending) loads imposed by a pulley. It may not be for these, either, if their output shaft normally gets the drive pulley of the CVT in the UTV.

Remember, every prop runs on a shaft with support on only one side. :)

Charlie
 

rv7charlie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
1,252
Location
Jackson
engine comes in two versions SO WATCH OUT, you want version WITHOUT CVT and gearbox/output shafts.
Can you clarify? When I looked at the Gaokin engines via Alibaba, I found a version for motorcycles that seemed to have an integral (manual) gearbox, and a version for UTVs that could be purchased with or without the CVT. The CVT for the UTV version appeared to be a separate component that we wouldn't want to pay for, but isn't that the version of the engine we'd want?

Charlie
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
14,177
Location
Memphis, TN
I'm use to piston helicopters that have a support between the crankshaft and the main gearbox. Lycoming 360s. Pulling on one side all the time is inevitable; it is a belt drive. Full force would be like only doing 3G loops until TBO. Something to unload it some on both ends, crank and drive. Square up the force on the bearings too.
 

soupercooper

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
70
Can you clarify? When I looked at the Gaokin engines via Alibaba, I found a version for motorcycles that seemed to have an integral (manual) gearbox, and a version for UTVs that could be purchased with or without the CVT. The CVT for the UTV version appeared to be a separate component that we wouldn't want to pay for, but isn't that the version of the engine we'd want?

Charlie
not the motorcycle version, the utv/atv/snowmobile version WITHOUT CVT and gearbox, it comes down to be the snowmobile version. we got a guy testing it in his snowmobile manufacturing industry as well, he's really happy with it, again I understand aircraft is a different animal and needs to be proven in aircraft, not like some others that are selling it to make money before even testing it!
 
Last edited:

soupercooper

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
70
I'm use to piston helicopters that have a support between the crankshaft and the main gearbox. Lycoming 360s. Pulling on one side all the time is inevitable; it is a belt drive. Full force would be like only doing 3G loops until TBO. Something to unload it some on both ends, crank and drive. Square up the force on the bearings too.
as most of you know belt needs to be properly tensioned and is not (almost) idiot proof like a gear drive. I would love to see a rotax C drive or B drive be coupled to it, by all means help us out. yamaha engine is really taking off for the Bush planes and they got a company releasing a gear drive for it, so look into the yamaha inline 4 cyl snowmobile engine as well, looks to be better HP to weight ratio than the goakin?, guys check that one out as well. also based from a snowmobile engine but an in-line instead of v-twin. dont flame me Im no expert on the yamaha version yet, its been supercharged as well by steve henry on a highlander at 300hp! but I think shes a heavy beast now. MAYBE SKYTRAX CAN DEVELOP A GEAR DRIVE FOR THE V_TWIN??!! i will probe skytrax to see if there interested in building an adapter for his gearbox to adapt to the gaokin.
Yamaha RX1 aircraft engine conversion, gear box adapter & gearbox by SkyTrax
 
Last edited:

pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
8,812
Location
North Carolina
it IS the drive from Ace Aviation, It is the gaokin engine cloned from the rotax can am bombardier v-twin developed for UTV/ATV/snowmobile industry, it is the engine under testing and developed from Kevin Armstrong from factory-fit, Kevin shared his design and drawings with everyone and chip is taking it and selling it. Chip is NOT the innovator Kevin Armstrong is. take a close look at the hybrid drive photo and you'll see its been photo shopped, I know this engine and drive development VERY WELL, Ive been on board with this development over a year now.
When I asked for redrive details so I could run a TV analysis, I was told I would have to buy one. That isn't 'sharing' in my book.
 

soupercooper

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
70
When I asked for redrive details so I could run a TV analysis, I was told I would have to buy one. That isn't 'sharing' in my book.
why are you basing your remark from my quote?, I NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO BUY A REDRIVE to run your analysis!? you must be referring to someone else? Okay Im done sharing anymore info on this subject.
 

karmarepair

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
320
Location
United States
When I asked for redrive details so I could run a TV analysis, I was told I would have to buy one. That isn't 'sharing' in my book.
I have had brief correspondence both with Kevin in England, and with the Ace Aviation PoC in India. Kevin gave me access to his Dropbox, which has a LOT of detail on his conversions. I haven't dug into it to see if the details of the redrive are there or not. You MIGHT be able to deduce all the relevant masses and spring constants from the detail drawings. I don't think either Kevin nor Ace actually know doodly about torsionals. And even Gates is pretty closed mouth about the stiffness of their sourced components. What I can say is that nothing I've seen about the Ace Redrives indicates that they have any sort of resilient decoupling element that would make them torsionally "soft". If one wanted to design one, say with a "Guibo" like a Rotax E box, I bet Ace would be happy to chew you one out of billet, for little money, decent quality, long lead time, and frustratingly slow, if any, communications.
 

karmarepair

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
320
Location
United States
why are you basing your remark from my quote?, I NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO BUY A REDRIVE to run your analysis!? you must be referring to someone else? Okay Im done sharing anymore info on this subject.
YOU didn't say that - either Kevin in England or the Ace guy in India probably said it.

They both told me much the same thing in private conversations.

Please keep sharing. You're advancing all our knowlede in this by having the actual hardware in your hands.
 
Top