ADS-B and Part 103

Discussion in 'Instruments / Avionics / Electrical System' started by proppastie, Nov 30, 2018.

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  1. Dec 1, 2018 #21

    proppastie

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    Do you have a link to that...seem to me you are saying I have to stay in class G airspace with Part 103
     
  2. Dec 1, 2018 #22

    proppastie

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    The idea is collision avoidance .....What I have noticed all my friends with ADS-B in are constantly looking at the traffic screen, and I would like to be on that screen when flying my part 103
     
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  3. Dec 1, 2018 #23

    BBerson

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    You can fly part 103 in any class E airspace without permission OTHER than class E airspace designated for an airport.
    What is your local airport? I will look at the chart on airnav.com
     
  4. Dec 1, 2018 #24

    BBerson

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    Yeah, "constantly" looking at the screen is the problem. Only about half the aircraft have ADS-B.
    The FAA will almost certainly at some near future mandate everyone (and ultralights)have ADS-B to make the system work.
    Which is fine with me if they allow $300 handheld ADS-B out units with no N number registration.
     
  5. Dec 1, 2018 #25

    proppastie

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    I found this, still reading it though, it is not clear.

    https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...an-an-ultralight-part-103-fly-in-without-prio

    edit; seems to me they are talking about a dashed magenta line which designates "controlled airspace" (usually airport without a tower that has a controlling agency off field, and you have to act like it has a tower in IFR conditions or when it is hot)

    I do not believe they mean the magenta shading associated with an uncontrolled airfield (but that is what I am trying to find out)


    dm7xx.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  6. Dec 1, 2018 #26

    proppastie

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    AS to Mode C only it is perhaps possible after reading the ADS-B regulation....sub part e defines aircraft that do not need ADS-B out, there is nothing there that says I can not have a Mode C transponder only. But there are lots of stuff involved and I easily could be wrong. Others have said I will get a phone call and I certainly will probably be subjected to scrutiny...and not to do it.
     
  7. Dec 1, 2018 #27

    TFF

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    Right now a transponder used 978 to receive and transmits on 1090 MHz. Mode C ADSB blocks the 1090 out and transmits back on 978 MHz. Digital signal. Mode S type blocks the 978 and only uses the 1090 frequency. There are duel band boxes too. Remember right now ADSB is voluntary. the FARs will read different Jan 1, 2020. If you charge your battery with a generator or alternator, you will have ADSB. Only aircraft with no electrical, defined right now as charging the system, can get away with no ADSB. Hand prop or total loss battery only charges on the ground is going to be exempt. If you don't think it applies to you, you are not reading all the FARs only the part that makes your case. Right now people are looking at the screen. A legacy 430W can only track 8 targets. New Garmin can track something like 32. 32 is going to look like a swarm and for those who know that there could be a swarm and only can see 8, both will be looking out the window for what ifs, if it is really that busy around you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  8. Dec 1, 2018 #28

    proppastie

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    N14 does not have a dashed magenta line around it. but tell me how you interpret if I can fly out of there. Also look at KVAY both have solar farm right next to them which should give me good lift I hope. I am limited to 3000 ft because to KPHL Class B but if it is a good day I can go east away from the Class B
     
  9. Dec 2, 2018 #29

    BBerson

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    Here is an example of class E with an extension at a field with no tower. (Fairchild International CLM)

    http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=48.120&lon=-123.500&zoom=10
     
  10. Dec 2, 2018 #30

    BBerson

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    I think N14 and KVAY are class G at the surface. KVAY might be in the Federal Airway airspace which is 8 miles wide and is class E but I don't know the floor of Federal airways. Probably not an issue unless you climb above the class B.
     
  11. Dec 2, 2018 #31

    davidb

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    Take a look at that little pie slice near Princeton. That’s class G. Almost all the rest of that vast area looks like it is E or under E associated with airports??
     
  12. Dec 2, 2018 #32

    BBerson

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    For ultralights, a mode C transponder isn't required in your mode C veil. Maybe you could just use an independent ADS-B transmitter not linked to a transponder at all.
    I agree, it would help if you are broadcasting out to others that are looking at the screen. But Part 103.13 says: "shall maintain vigilance so as to see and avoid aircraft and yield the right of way to all aircraft."

    Staring at a screen might not be "see and avoid".
     
  13. Dec 2, 2018 #33

    BBerson

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    That slice at Princeton University is weird. I wonder why they did it?
    He can fly in the vast class E under part 103.23
    The only class E associated or designated for an airport that I found is Millville. On the bottom of the mode C veil ring.
     
  14. Dec 2, 2018 #34

    Dana

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    Right, you can fly an ultralight in any of the class E areas indicated by magenta shading. That class E is there because of the airports it's over, but it's not "surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport" as mentioned in 103.17. For an ultralight, the only difference between non-surface class E and class G is the cloud clearance requirements. Millville has a class E surface area, and McGuire AFB also has some class E surface extensions to its class D area. I'm not clear on the criteria for creating class E surface areas, but class E in general is where aircraft under IFR operate, over an airport the class E drops lower to encompass the instrument approach. Presumably airports with class E surface have lower approach minimums. Most, but not all, airports with class E surface have an ILS, and most, not all, uncontrolled airports with ILS have surface class E.

    The little slice of higher class G near Princeton is probably just what was left over when they were carving up the class E, not intentional.
     
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  15. Dec 3, 2018 #35

    proppastie

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    Until I studied it I though the magenta shading around the airports was what they were talking about, it is a Class E change associated with an airport. Thanks all.
     
  16. Dec 3, 2018 #36

    proppastie

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    I do not plan on a charging system...but that brings up another interesting question ....what about a Part 103 with no N number and a charging system. What then?

    I meant what if I had a charging system ....was required therefore to have ADS-B out but did not have an N number.....
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  17. Dec 3, 2018 #37

    BBerson

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    The requirement for transponder is in part 91.
    Part 91 doesn't apply to ultralights.
     
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  18. Dec 3, 2018 #38

    proppastie

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    see edit post 36
     
  19. Dec 3, 2018 #39

    BBerson

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    The rules for having a charging system or not are in Part 91. So none of it applies to part 103.
    It would take quite a bit of power to run an old transponder, not sure about the new ones.
    I would imagine a UAS (unmanned aircraft system) type ADS-B without the transponder would be best. But I doubt any standards or rules are in place.
     
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  20. Dec 13, 2018 #40

    proppastie

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    Here is a good though from a wag at the airport......Part 103 ....do anything you want....you are not an aircraft or pert 91 (as was said by BB) ......So can I install a "drone adsb" unit only (for low battery drain)....... again the idea it to show up on other aircraft traffic screens.
     

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