ADS-B ... a question

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Daleandee

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I know that ADS-B "out" will be required after January 2020 for operations in airspace that now requires a transponder. I currently have a transponder and ADS-B "in" but not "out".

My question has to so with flight following. After the mandate kicks in can I use flight following without having ADS-B "out" if I'm asking for coverage from a non-towered field through non towered airspace to another non-towered field? In other words; at no time would I be in controlled (towered) airspace. Could I still receive flight following using my transponder system without the ADS-B out?

I've scanned several websites and haven't seen this question asked or answered anywhere.

Dale
N319WF
 

BJC

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Good question.

Given the stated reason for mandating ADS-B, https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/faq/#g1 my WAG is that there will be some controllers in some locations who will opt to provide Flight Following. Then, at some future time, probably following a near collision or three, the FAA will determine that ADS-B is a requirement to get a discrete transponder code for any purpose. Again, that is just my WAG.

Cost aside, though, anyone who appreciates Flight Following will love the idea that everyone else out there is transmitting ADS-B data.


BJC
 

TFF

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If you want to play close to your chest, G airspace is not controlled airspace. ADSB is required in controlled airspace with planes with a generator/alternator. ( debate the cheating systems somewhere else because if I decide to cheat, I don’t want evidence;) E airspace is controlled. Does not mean you have to be controlled by a tower or center. Because there is flight following and IFR in E, it is claimed as controlled, you just have the option to do it on your own. You asking for flight following means you are asking for the option of control in E airspace. First question they will ask is if your ADSB is working when they can’t see it. If you don’t add the ADSB you are not 2020 compliant. The FARs will read different Jan 1 than they read today.
 

BBerson

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I think a standard mode c transponder data will be retransmitted to others via the TIS from the radar.
So they should see you when in the radar area. In non radar call FSS for following.
ADS-B is only really useful when no radar is available in remote areas.
 

12notes

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If you want to play close to your chest, G airspace is not controlled airspace. ADSB is required in controlled airspace with planes with a generator/alternator. ( debate the cheating systems somewhere else because if I decide to cheat, I don’t want evidence;) E airspace is controlled. Does not mean you have to be controlled by a tower or center. Because there is flight following and IFR in E, it is claimed as controlled, you just have the option to do it on your own. You asking for flight following means you are asking for the option of control in E airspace. First question they will ask is if your ADSB is working when they can’t see it. If you don’t add the ADSB you are not 2020 compliant. The FARs will read different Jan 1 than they read today.
ADS-B is NOT required in all controlled airspace. ADS-B is required in controlled airspace that currently requires a transponder, with some small changes. For VFR, this is mainly just class Bravo, the mode C veil (unless no electrical), class Charlie, and class Echo above 10,000 MSL unless under 2,500AGL (unless no electrical). The FARs are clear on this.

ADSB regulations:
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?node=se14.2.91_1225&rgn=div8

Current transponder regulations :
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=3cd300ecfe063a4a5fcc92c29d7e519c&mc=true&n=sp14.2.91.c&r=SUBPART&ty=HTML#se14.2.91_1215

Flight following is in AIM 4-1-15, the official name is "Radar Traffic Information Service".
https://airresearch.com/Pilots/AIM-08/Chap4/aim0401.html

The AIM does not mention a transponder as required for flight following, and does not mention ASD-B.
Unless the controller simply doesn't want to deal with it, flight following should still be available after 2020 without ADS-B, just as you can get flight following without a transponder today (if the controller can and wants to). For the extreme example of what's allowed, a transponder is still not legally required to fly IFR if your plane does not have an engine driven electrical system.
 

BJC

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ADS-B is NOT required in all controlled airspace. ADS-B is required in controlled airspace that currently requires a transponder, with some small changes. For VFR, this is mainly just class Bravo, the mode C veil (unless no electrical), class Charlie, and class Echo above 10,000 MSL unless under 2,500AGL (unless no electrical).
One of the differences is that the airspace above the ceilings of C and B airspace require ADS-B for aircraft with an electrical system.


BJC
 

Daleandee

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Thanks to all for the replies. I do have plans to update to ADS-B out in the near future. Waiting for those winning lottery numbers to hit ... :rolleyes:

Dale
N319WF
 
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