A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Show

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by Wayne, Jun 22, 2017.

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  1. Jun 24, 2017 #41

    pictsidhe

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    At 30:1, it's still around 200 mile range.
    Batteries are expensive, something with a decent L/D but less gross weight would be better. Range is proportional to battery capacity : drag, battery cost is proportional to capacity. Make it light! As a friend used to tell me, the lighter you make it, the lighter you can make it.
     
  2. Jun 24, 2017 #42

    BBerson

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    There should be an optimal cruise altitude. Also, I think with a foldaway prop, periodic engine off porpoise gliding segments gives the best range.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  3. Jun 24, 2017 #43

    cheapracer

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    My whole car sells for $15K retail, 2 to 3 hours range.

    There is no "make it light", 2 hours of batteries weigh what they weigh, that is set, the object is to build a craft around them, not vice versa, and that thinking is what is limiting electric planes now.

    I can only see something like a 2 place Facetmobile being a practical solution, something that will still have reasonable wing loading with simple packaging realities.

    Reading this article may convince people as to my proposition, specific to comparisons on page 23 and 28 ....

    http://www.wainfan.com/pavreport.pdf

    VB, no practical person wants to live with a 60ft wingspan plane, they want a "park and drive it".
     
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  4. Jun 24, 2017 #44

    pictsidhe

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    The facetmobile is exactly what I'm talking about, less structure weight for a given payload. I believe it also has benign flight characteristics. It's oddball appearance may actually work in it's favour for something as revolutionary as an electric plane. If you can reduce GW by 10% and keep the L/D, that's 10% less batteries to haul it. The trick is to not let the drag climb so much as result that you end up needing more thrust than the heavy version. Keeping total drag down with a small span means keeping the speed up.
     
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  5. Jun 24, 2017 #45

    autoreply

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    Put an outrunner around the tail boom. Zero extra drag in both modes ;)
     
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  6. Jun 25, 2017 #46

    pictsidhe

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    That could even reduce cockpit drag. Goldschmeid and Glauert stuff comes to mind.
     
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  7. Jun 25, 2017 #47

    henryk

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  8. Jun 26, 2017 #48

    clanon

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  9. Jun 26, 2017 #49

    BJC

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  10. Jun 26, 2017 #50

    12notes

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    If you'd like to see what the prototype "unveiled" looks like, this article has a nice picture. You may notice some slight changes from the CAD drawings, in that it's the size of a medium RC plane, has a single pusher prop, no v-tail, a single canopy with little room for passengers or cargo if scaled up, completely different combination wing/tail design, is way shorter and has different relative sizes in every dimension.

    But it is painted white with silver accents, exactly like the drawings. They've certainly proved the color concept works.

    http://scentofindia.com/2017/06/21/eviation-made-debut-paris-air-show-innovative-promises/
     
  11. Jun 26, 2017 #51

    cheapracer

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    Synergy telephoned, they want their model back :gig:
     
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  12. Jun 26, 2017 #52

    pictsidhe

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    Aluminium refining is an environmentally dirty process using huge amounts of fossil fuels and electelectricity. Al-air batteries don't make sense for bulk energy storage.
     
  13. Jun 26, 2017 #53

    12notes

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    I think you misunderstand their target customers - they're not pilots, they're investors. The plane is not the product, the company is.
     
  14. Jun 26, 2017 #54

    pictsidhe

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    D'oh! I'm just not cynical enough yet either!
     
  15. Jun 26, 2017 #55

    pictsidhe

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  16. Jun 26, 2017 #56

    Aviator168

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    Steam is a worse green gas than CO2.;)

    Hate to burst your bubble. You have to compare the total CO2 footprints of making a comparable gasoline car and the Tesla. Until than, everything is just speculation or worse, propaganda.
     
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  17. Jun 27, 2017 #57

    cheapracer

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    I'm not that savvy on the knowledge, care to explain please?
     
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  18. Jun 28, 2017 #58

    Aesquire

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    It has to do with the spectra of light in the infrared that is reflected back to the earth from the atmosphere.
    Water vapor is a Much more powerful greenhouse gas. So is Methane, produced by swamps, garbage dumps, and animal metabolism. ( you surely know jokes about lighting such gasses. YouTube has many videos of idjits lighting their pants on fire. )

    There's a reason that farmers and waste disposal companies collect the Methane from garbage dumps and manure piles. It's not only free energy, you get tax credits for reducing greenhouse emissions.

    This forum does not allow religious arguments for good reason. So I will not comment on the religious propaganda & extremism surrounding this subject.
     
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  19. Jun 28, 2017 #59

    Aesquire

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    I'm all for the electric car, bike, airplane, space drive.

    I might get an electric bike for recreation. ( to augment my 3 conventional bikes. Although I should sell my racing bike that I haven't ridden in years. )

    I'm unlikely to get an electric car. I routinely drive longer than available ranges. There's a financial limit to my toys.

    Ditto for electric planes. Although I am very tempted to talk to BoKu about his self launch sailplane in development.

    It's all about the batteries. They are improving as we speak. Not, alas, as fast as we might like or are being sold by some people.

    Some of these folk are honestly optimistic. Others are con men. Sometimes the difference is easy to tell. Often it is not.

    I was fooled by one electric motor glider company that had lovely pictures of imaginary aircraft flying in exotic world locations. I assumed they were a con. I was wrong. They have actual flying hardware. I don't think after several years they have a commercial flying electric model but it's in progress.

    Pipistrel has a flying product you can buy. A few others do too.

    Last I looked the market was tiny and the aircraft fall into the self launch glider or glider sustainer category. But in your lifetime there most probably will be Cessna trainer versions and in your children's day, RV-X equivalent planes.

    The pretty picture folk from the OP want you to think their product is ready next week. Bet ya not.
     
  20. Jun 28, 2017 #60

    pictsidhe

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    Re: A new all-electric aircraft with a range up to 600 miles unveiled at Paris Air Sh

    There seems to be a new electric wonderplane project every week. Most of them don't seem viable. This one doesn't even have a mockup and the weight and balance is visibly wrong. That doesn't scream cutting edge competence to me. It's also environmentally dirty. The Lilium looks a much better bet, though I suspect it depends on tomorrow's battery tech.
    But, they're electric man, wooooo!
     

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