A-- Hat drone owner/pilot

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BJC

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Not defending the drone operator, but, if there is a group of commercial pilots who are more reckless in their operations than “news” helicopter pilots, I don’t know who they are.


BJC
 

Hephaestus

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Kinda sounds like the news helicopter approached the drone without noticing his presence. Covering the same event... Says it looked like the drone turned to observe him - so - clearly the drone pilot was doing his job.

Quick look said outside the B, in the G... So if the drone's under 400' above rooftops. What's the issue here?
 

dave wolfe

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I havent read the entire set of drone regs but I dont recall seeing anything in there about them avoiding manned aircraft.
 
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Hephaestus

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Vigilant1

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Quick look said outside the B, in the G... So if the drone's under 400' above rooftops. What's the issue here?
Per the report linked to the original post:
1) The drone was roughly co-altitude with the helicopter, at 800’ AGL
2) The drone was approx 3.3 miles from Tamiami airport. The report says they are required to stay 5 miles away from airports. If they were 3.3 miles away, they were within the Class D airspace. This airport has a tower that was operational at this time.

Chart: VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts
 
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Hephaestus

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Per the report linked to the original post:
1) The drone was roughly co-altitude with the helicopter, at 800’ AGL
2) The drone was approx 3.3 miles from an airport. The report says they are required to stay 5 miles away from airports.
Missed the 800 AGL somehow.

But they're required to stay outside of B which is typically 5 miles - but at Tamiami - looks like B is truncated on that north side, so he could be very legal there. Without bothering to scale it out.

Suppose it'll come down to whether the chopper / drone really was at 800, or if either was exaggerating a bit for a news story with video :)

I fall on both sides of the drone vs aircraft issue, and I've already had one complaint from TC, apparently I was at 2000'. Funny TC called me and pretty much dropped it when I asked how do I change it to remove the from 120m max altitude (396').
 

Vigilant1

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Missed the 800 AGL somehow.

But they're required to stay outside of B which is typically 5 miles - but at Tamiami - looks like B is truncated on that north side, so he could be very legal there. Without bothering to scale it out.

Suppose it'll come down to whether the chopper / drone really was at 800, or if either was exaggerating a bit for a news story with video :)
If they were within 5 miles of Tamiami at that time, they were in Class D airspace. It is a controlled airfield.
 

Hephaestus

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If they were within 5 miles of Tamiami at that time, they were in Class D airspace. It is a controlled airfield.
Remember that first day of chart reading in ground school - where they emphasized, make sure you're looking at the correct airfield?

Maybe I'll book a refresher... :beer: Miami intl vs tamiami 🤦‍♂️
 

Bille Floyd

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Those Darn drones, (and FPV fixed-wings) ; they just Ruined it for all the
law abiding people, who enjoy flying RC aircraft. You wouldn't believe, how
many you-tube videos i've seen , that had shots of them flying above the
clouds ; now imagine a IFR pilot, getting taken out by the selfish idiot !

It really isn't that difficult , to find the people who blatantly do this
sort of thing ; the frequencies used are easy to scan , and with some
rather cheap equipment , a triangulation can be made.

Bille
 

Vigilant1

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It really isn't that difficult , to find the people who blatantly do this
sort of thing ; the frequencies used are easy to scan , and with some
rather cheap equipment , a triangulation can be made.
The law enforcement manpower to operate the equipment (triangulation, or probably time-distance of arrival) and to go to the source would be significant. And to start, you need to ID the signal of interest which itself would be a challenge if other drones are being operated within line-of-sight of the troublemaker. Unfortunately, given other law enforcement taskings (violent crime, etc) it's just not going to be a high priority unless the drone has already caused injury or a serious problem (flight cancellations at Gatwick, etc).
 

Hephaestus

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The law enforcement manpower to operate the equipment (triangulation, or probably time-distance of arrival) and to go to the source would be significant. And to start, you need to ID the signal of interest which itself would be a challenge if other drones are being operated within line-of-sight of the troublemaker. Unfortunately, given other law enforcement taskings (violent crime, etc) it's just not going to be a high priority unless the drone has already caused injury or a serious problem (flight cancellations at Gatwick, etc).
Pretty sure they (federal agencies) have access to some form of flight data for the big makers, I know DJI's app will automatically pull you a clearance etc in certain areas and restrict you outside of the airspace if you're not allowed to fly there.

Reasonably sure they can access it to figure out who's drone is involved in a complaint. I got a complaint - and there would be no way for TC to know that dji mini was mine, but TC was able to call me directly. So clearly they have some ability to search for flights in an area.

For the hobby/non-commercial builds - bigger challenge unless you get a picture of the Reg# on a 8-12" quadcopter - how likely is that?
 

Vigilant1

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Pretty sure they (federal agencies) have access to some form of flight data for the big makers, I know DJI's app will automatically pull you a clearance etc in certain areas and restrict you outside of the airspace if you're not allowed to fly there.
Thanks, interesting.

For the hobby/non-commercial builds - bigger challenge unless you get a picture of the Reg# on a 8-12" quadcopter - how likely is that?
I think offensive electronic action by authorities against offending aircraft (jamming/circuit disruption by high power EM energy through high-gain antennas to bring them down) may be an important tool in cases of big problems (disruption at airports, rescue operations, etc). It would presumably bring a quick end to that specific episode and having the device in hand gives a useful starting point for more investigation.
 
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Hephaestus

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I think offensive electronic action by authorities against offending aircraft (jamming/circuit disruption by high power EM energy through high-gain antennas to bring them down) may be an important tool in cases of big problems (disruption at airports, rescue operations, etc). It would presumably bring a quick end to that specific episode and having the device in hand gives a useful starting point for more investigation.
Think the technology might be ahead of that curve already. Short of focused EMP actually burning out the flight controller.

The unreliability of GPS and signal issues means there's a lot of backup/redundancy, I lost radio and gps due to being an idiot - rpas landed within 100' of takeoff with 0 input possible from me - many of the flight controllers already do this. The flight controllers do better at dead reckoning than most of us old farts.
 

Vigilant1

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Enforcement UAVs, then? Should be straightforward to down a drone with another drone with a dragged sticky net and attached parachute. Probably preferable to follow the offender home to Papa, but if it is a current hazard or danger, just bring it down as safely as possible.
That would be a fun job, we'd have lots of volunteers. It might even fall within the authority of private security firms that eject troublesome folks from sporting events, etc.
 

Bille Floyd

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Current technology is getting rather inexpensive ; for what you get.




Bille
 
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Hephaestus

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Like I said - I have a feeling this news chopper was creating a story... Drone vs News helicopter makes a much better story than a person had a medical issue and drove into a buildings front window.

Start playing with the current not toystore grade drones/uav/rpas - you're going to find out quick the software is already in place to restrict you to legal flying. Even the hobbiest gear - the developers do not want you breaking rules and will enforce those rules and verify clearances/permissions...
 

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