A good common engine to convert?

Discussion in 'General Auto Conversion Discussion' started by jake2465, Oct 7, 2019.

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  1. Oct 7, 2019 #1

    jake2465

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    Hi everyone,

    I am wondering what engines are popular out there to do the auto conversions on? I have at my disposal a machine shop where I could fabricate my own PSRU and I plan to get on with it. Only thing is that I own a Suzuki G13BB and a Subaru EG33. If I recall, they stopped making parts for the EG33 back in the mid-'90s. The G13BB seems like a nice one to do this kind of thing on, but I think it's only around 80ci on its displacement. To get some good power going through it, I would have to wring it out pretty good.

    I figure if I am going to go this far, I may as well make a unit for popular auto engines that others can benefit from as well. Any suggestions?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  2. Oct 7, 2019 #2

    wsimpso1

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    You will be likely to get a better response if you tell us the horsepower you are looking to run.

    I know that there are quite a few GM LS series in the 350 to 450 hp range flying, as well as quite a few Subaru EJ series engines in the 150-200 hp range. Suzuki and Honda engines are out there in turn key versions in the 80-130 hp range.

    As much as I know about gearboxes and vibration management (23 years in auto trans) I would not attempt a one-off PSRU. You would be wise to consider someone else's proven device...

    Billski
     
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  3. Oct 7, 2019 #3

    jake2465

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    I am glad you brought up some of the issues because that's what I am interested in. I have known too many guys that have talked about the failures of PSRUs with practically no context of the situation. As soon as I started to pry and ask analytical questions concerning what failed, they are at a loss for words because they have no idea. I wanted to know whether it was premature gear failure due to excessive engagement velocities, galling, lack of lubrication, incorrect bearing selection, prop moment/ ignition impulses causing tuned harmonics, etc. I got nothing out of them. Perhaps you could enlighten me?
     
  4. Oct 7, 2019 #4

    Dana

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    Torsional resonance is probably the toughest problem.
     
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  5. Oct 7, 2019 #5

    jake2465

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    So you mean the phenomena where the shafts in the gearbox tend to twist slightly and then unload their energy on the gears and repeat at a certain Hz?
     
  6. Oct 7, 2019 #6

    akwrencher

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  7. Oct 7, 2019 #7

    karmarepair

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    The Suzuki is still in production - in India, under license. It looks like the last ones of that configuration sold in North America (in Suzuki Esteems) were the early 2000's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_G_engine

    It looks like there already IS a reduction drive available for that engine, with a proper "soft" element between the engine and the drive to deal with torsional vibration. http://www.airtrikes.net/engines.shtml
     
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  8. Oct 7, 2019 #8

    mullacharjak

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    There is mention of Jim Alexander of Nantikote in Canada who converted a Suzuki 1.3L for his aircraft a Nessa II.
    He used a cog belt drive with no vibration damper as far as I can tell.You can see some pictures on sdsefi.com NessaII geo7.jpg
    Always confused by the term G13BB as I looked hard but all its written on the block is G13B both for the single and twin cam engines.I conclude that the twin cam 1.3L engines are called BB.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  9. Oct 7, 2019 #9

    aeromomentum

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    That looks like a G13BA, SOHC 8 valve. The G13B is a DOHC 16 valve. The G13BB is a SOHC 16 valve. There is also a G13A SOHC 8 valve.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_G_engine
    In general the G13BB and G15A are the preferred Suzuki 4 cylinder engines for conversion since they have better power to weight.
    Full disclosure: We (http://aeromomentum.com/) do conversions of and parts for the various G13BB and G15A engines including PSRUs.
     
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  10. Oct 7, 2019 #10

    mullacharjak

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    Do Aeromomentum sell drawings for building their reduction drives like homebuilt aircraft designers do.Looks like everyone has a suzuki engine lying at home! Me included.I have a MA15 from a suzuki swift half cut car.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  11. Oct 7, 2019 #11

    pictsidhe

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    Having calculated a stiff system for a Briggs, that one looks a bit undersized to me.
     
  12. Oct 7, 2019 #12

    mullacharjak

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    No marks for guessing which engine is powering this Pietenpol.Suzuki G13.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  13. Oct 7, 2019 #13

    wsimpso1

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    There are many more ways than just what you listed to have failures in a gearbox and vibration isolator. Most of the gear and bearing stuff can be done right using the handbooks, etc. Folks who play fast and loose on this stuff get into trouble. Then there is vibe. Spend some quality time on this:

    https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/...-and-resonance-basic-theory-and-issues.14215/

    As much as I know about this, I am NOT building my own PSRU.

    Billski
     
  14. Oct 9, 2019 at 9:16 PM #14

    pfarber

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    Any modern engine (post 2010-ish) is going to be almost all aluminum. Most motors before that seem to have cast iron in them.

    For modern (post 2010-ish):

    I think any I4 would be a good candidate for about 100-120hp

    V6 can take you to 200hp without having to spin it up to high

    And the v8s are good to 600hp+ with even a moderate warm over.

    I'd take a look at an I6 if I knew of one that was all aluminum.

    I'm happy with my choice of an LV3. Not a perfect motor but it hits all my requirements.
     
  15. Oct 10, 2019 at 12:41 AM #15

    Winginitt

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    If you want to adapt an engine,the first thing you need to tell us is what airplane it's for and what HP range you want to obtain. If you just want to actually build an airplane with an alternative engine, there are lots of ways to do it. If you think you want to build redrives and be an entrepreneur, there are lots of ways to go broke. So, business or pleasure ?
     
  16. Oct 10, 2019 at 5:12 AM #16

    cheapracer

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    People should not make the common mistake of believing just because it's aluminium it is therefor lighter than a cast iron blocked engine.

    Simply not true, and many aluminium engines are woefully heavy. Many have so much external ribbing for strength and large, integral alumnium sump, that they actually weigh more than the cast iron block engine series they replaced.

    Each engine consided's weight should be investigated individually, not merely based on what it's made of.




    Good luck with that, i6 is the heaviest configuration of common engine configurations.

    The 2004 BMW 1 series hybrid magnesium.aluminium i6, finally replaced the Holden i6 as the lightest i6 ever made.

    The Holden i6 held the mantle as the lightest i6 from the 1960s until 2004 , and it's block AND HEAD was cast iron.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 3:04 PM
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  17. Oct 10, 2019 at 4:10 PM #17

    tcrbaker

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    Check out the new Ford Dragon motor. An all aluminum 1.5l 3 cylinder will be the base engine in the 2020 Escape.
     
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  18. Oct 10, 2019 at 7:08 PM #18

    pfarber

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    Just for my reference, what viable auto conversion has an Aluminum block/head that weighs MORE than cast iron? In the LS engine you save 100lbs on the block alone over cast iron.

    Also inline engines key benefit is significantly reduced vibration.

    Remember auto conversions are not 100% about weight reduction. If all you're going to look at is empty wight then you're not gonna be happy with choices over 150hp.

    As for I6s the Vortec 4200 was on my radar for a while. 270hp @ 6000 run at about 4800 for 200hp seems like a good choice.

    In the car the 4200 weighed about 400lbs. You could get that to 350 with getting rid of the exhaust and emissions. With a PSRU you'd be back up to about 400lbs for 200hp. Not a bad weight range. A 180hp O-360 is 300-330lbs.
     
  19. Oct 10, 2019 at 7:37 PM #19

    cheapracer

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    Not what I said, i was mentioning to people to not make the mistake of thinking something is light, or lighter, merely based on it being all aluminium. All aluminium Honda K20's are notoriously tall and heavy for a 2.0 for example, compared to a 2.2 Toyota 5S-FE, 200cc bigger, dual balance shafts and with cast iron block is lighter.

    All i am saying is take each engine on it's own merits, not what it's made from, you know, just trying to help members here to make informed choices.


    Compared to what? An inline 4 is not smoother than a flat 4.

    60 degree V6 engines are very smooth, yes they use a balance shaft to achieve that, but the overall weight saving is enormous over a straight 6.



    "In car", a Nissan V6 weighs 320 lbs, 260 to 300+hp depending on model. Plenty of V6s out there will walk over the Vortec specs.
     
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  20. Oct 10, 2019 at 10:06 PM #20

    mullacharjak

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    Cheapracer

    What auto car engine would you recommend for a pietenpol aircamper/Direct drive.It has to be a Toyota,Honda,maybe Nissan.I was thinking about a Toyota 2.0l 3ZR-FE I4 because of weight or a 2.5l 4GR-FE V6 which I feel is heavy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 10:17 PM

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