# A challenge to you all

Discussion in 'The light stuff area' started by stan40353, Sep 11, 2011.

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1. Feb 10, 2016

### Autodidact

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:grin: Rocket girl! Yeah!

2. Feb 11, 2016

### choppergirl

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Oh I'm way ahead of you. Training stuffed animal cats in parachutes for Earth reentry, out of my antique home built rocket glider, is only Phase 1...

STUFFED ANIMAL SPACE AGENCY Website

Astrocat Stuffed Animal Trainees:
SCRUFFLES - Purrlot
FREE FALL - Meovigator
DANGER ZONE - Scratchineer

Phase 2... is TOP SECRET.

Phase 3 involves recycling and modding cold war Titan 1 missles, with nose cones painted with sharks heads on them, mounting long range lasars on the nose cones, to defend the Earth from an inevitable alien invasion.... I mean we're just sitting on this blue marble in space, rich in natural resources, raw chemicals, and heavy elements, lolly gagging along... our glowing fuzzy warm illuminated planet is just sitting here, illuminated against the blackness of space, helpless with no planetary defense system, open to being conquered, devoured, processed, and exploited.

Nobody's preparing for this. You think your government is, or NATO? Pfff.... THE SASA may be our only hope. FUND IT!

Stuffed animals make the perfect pilots... as they are immune to psionic alien mind control... and will divulge no secrets about humanity under torture or deep mental probing.

I'm already training ground controllers in the art of earth defense lasar targeting... using the most advanced alien invasion defense training software available our SASA budget can afford... no expense spared:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eC_6QzvLrE

You may be asking, why not just let the stuffed animals burn up on reentry, or be lost in the infinite void of space?

Well, we can't have that, that would be a PR "public relations" cat-as-trophe...

Think of all the children watching...

...

Senator, we have a stuffed animal missle gap with the Chinese... and its only going to get worse...
Three words: "Immediate Federal Funding"

Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
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3. Feb 11, 2016

### NoStealth

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Whoa! time to switch to decaf? Please tell me no stuffed tigger's will be hurt making this thing

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4. Feb 11, 2016

### blane.c

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5. Jul 27, 2018

### stan40353

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im back finally.

6. Sep 2, 2018

### jedi

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And school is back in session. It is time to relight this project and see if something can be built this winter.

This is a roll call to see who is aboard with a GO.

I still am undecided on the power plant so a glider is under consideration but some engine is likely so as to have the 155 pound 103 unpowered limit not be a limitation. I am concerned that this would kill the plan for many potential builders.

Is there support for a new and improved hang glider? Keeping cost under control/no Swift clone. Emphasis on utility and portability without sacrificing performance. Incorporating improvements to control and maneuvering. Having the potential to add self launch power when desired.

7. Sep 3, 2018

### Armilite

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========================================================================

You can't entice Kids, younger People into the Sport, if they don't get off their Phones, XBox, Computer, watching TV, basically get out of the House, off the counch! There are many Plans out there for many Ultralights, and Kitplanes, some Good, some not so Good. Your probably better off just Buying a used Plane $500 to$5000 and just making any Repairs or Upghrades you want. Use www.searchtempest.com and search from your Zip Code. There are many ways to make extra money if you try! Picking up Junk Cars/Scrap Metal is the easiest way. I just asked my grandkid 10 yesterday, how many Yards did you mow this Summer, answer (1). When I was a kid I mowed 20 on Avg, Baled Hey, Walked the Bean/Corn fields, Shoveled Snow, did a Paper Route, on top of my Parents Home Chores as a city kid. He does Help Clean at their Apt Building they live in. You can pickup a Good used Rotax 277 for $250-$500, Gear Drives $250-$500. I would buy a New Prop. I traded for a 277 with Gear Drive once for something I had $250 in. Avg Junk Price for a Small Car/Truck$100, Medium Size Car/Truck $150, Large Car/Truck$200. Say $150avg. IF, you Seperate out the Metals like, Steel & Cast Iron(.10 cents a lb), Aluminium(.80+ cents a lb, Copper($1.80+ a lb), Brass($3+ a lb), Platnium($), etc. you will get much more out of it. Cataletic Converters have Platnium in them and they were getting years ago $200 for them alone. That$150 Junk Car/Truck now becomes a $500-$600 car. Some Cars/Trucks/etc., or Parts you may get for FREE, might be worth more than their Scrap Price. Most every Car/Truck sitting in the weeds, usually has either a Bad motor, a Bad Tranny, or Bad Rear End, so two of the Three are usually good. A Good running Motor can bring $400 to$1000, a Good Tranny can bring $400 to$800, a Good Rear End can bring $200 to$400. My one buddy who did some scrapping many years ago, made $1,800 off just one Acreage, (3) Car trailer loads with his pickup box also full and got it all for Free. The guy even helped him load it. He never paid for any Scrap, he would just stop and knock, ask if they wanted it hauled off for Free, and he made over$25,000 that first year working part time about 2 days a week.

$5000/$150 = 33 Cars/Trucks!
$4000/$150 = 26 Cars/Trucks!
$3000/$150 = 20 Cars/Trucks!
$2000/$150 = 13 Cars/Trucks!
$1000/$150 = 7 Cars/Trucks!
$500/$150 = 3 Cars/Trucks!

$5000/$500 = 10 Cars/Trucks! IF, you Seperate the Metals it will be much less Cars/Trucks needed to meet your Goals say $500 Avg.$4000/$500 = 8 Cars/Trucks!$3000/$500 = 6 Cars/Trucks!$2000/$150 = 4 Cars/Trucks!$1000/$500 = 2 Cars/Trucks!$ 500/$500 = 1 Cars/Trucks! My Daughter just got laidoff from her$15 an hour job the other day, Company closing down. $15 x 8hrs =$120 a day, x 5 days(40hrs) = $600 a week,$2,400(160hrs) a Month! After Taxes, probably $1,900 take home a month! Now, I just showed her on Googlemaps (1) Farm stead just outside her Small Town with about 15 Junk Cars/Trucks sitting in the weeds. Say (2) Days Work, 15 x$150 = $2,250 if you just Hook & Pull to Scrap Yard or (4 days Work) 15 x$500 = $7,500 if you maybe Seperate it all, depending on how much work you want to put into it. Much more$ if their worth more than Scrap Price.

Craigslist is a Good Source for Cheap Cars that you can Junk Out or Fix and Re-Sell.

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8. Sep 3, 2018

### Armilite

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Another way to make some extra Money to fund your Airplane or other projects!

One of my other daughters was looking to buy her first house with her Boyfriend. They were Paying $1100 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment. Now she had always lived in a nice home, ate at nice resturants, had nice clothes, etc., living with me. She was making around$32,000 and boyfriend around $45,000 and his parents had good Paying Jobs also, so he had nice things. I showed them an Old 1800sq ft House, but fixable with a very large lot I believe about 2.4a, with a detached newer Garage for$15,000 in a small town 8 miles away from where they both worked. I told them, offer $10,000 and probably put$15k in it, and then maybe flip it once done for $80,000+, and that I & Mom would Help to do the work to fix it up. They both thumbed their nose at it. Well, 2 weeks late a guy buys it for$10,000, tears down the House, Splits the Property into (2) Lots, one with the newer 2 stall garge put's them right back on the market for $40,000 each. 1st lot sold in 2 weeks, 2nd lot took 5-6 months. Moral of the Story, don't look a Gift Horse in the Mouth and be to choosey. Think of all your options in Life. Around me, used Homes go for avg$140sq ft. Small Town lots avg $15,000+, my towns lots avg.$60,000+, Acreage Land around me avg $10,000 to$20,000+ an Acre. A Small Town 11 miles away the other day had a House listed for $5000, I told my daughter who just got laid off, has Time on her hands, the lot alone is worth$15,000. Buy, Fixup and Flip or Rent it out for probably $600+. Her sisiter is Renting about same size Apt Space for$580 a month with No Garage in a different Small town! I believe it was 780sq ft. If Fixed up, 780sqft x $140 =$109,200.

Anybody, can Paint, Cleanup & Sweep up garbage, Fix a Wall, Trim Trees & Bushes, replace a door or Window, etc. if they try. Today you have very good Video's and Books on How to do just about anything. I built my own Home going on 36 years ago. When it needed Re-Shingled/Full Tearoff, 28 years later, I had my Wife and 3 of the 4 Daughters right up there Helping, so they know what it all entails to Re-Roof a House. Just like working on Cars/Trucks the girls have been under there getting their Hands dirty turning wrenchs. I always tried to show them both sides, I'd say, call up the Chevy Dealer and see what they charge to change that Water pump out, then I'd say call Napa and see what the Water Pump Costs, then they seen how Simple it was to usually change out, well most of the Times it's Simple with maybe a few Cuss Words from Dad to help it along. Moral of the Story, learn to do more things in Life to Save you Money! Then you have Money for that Ultralight or Kitplane.

Me building my house at age 25, took a year working on my off time from work on the Railroad. Dad came down one day to Help me hang some plywood on my Garage/Shop. Oh for them lean a mean, 6ft, 205lb days! 1st photo, my pregneat wife asking me what I want to eat, and I'm telling her a Deli Sanwich that long.

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9. Sep 3, 2018

### jedi

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Armilite,

Those are some good examples of how to get the job done. If you want it done and done right do it yourself.

Now, are you ready to build that plane?

As in the examples you gave, a little flexibility in requirements can save a lot in expense. The same applies to aircraft construction. A little out of the box thinking can go a long ways towards achieving the big elusive goals at a reasonable price.

Furthermore, incorporating and building on the value of basic goals and requirements can make the end product worth a considerably higher price.

10. Jul 28, 2019

### Speedboat100

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Cool..has this advanced ?

11. Jul 28, 2019

### Speedboat100

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Isn't that a bit too rich ?

12. Jul 28, 2019

### Speedboat100

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Let this be a lesson to us all ( on page 4 ).

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13. Jul 28, 2019

### Speedboat100

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That SKYLITE looks georgeous !

14. Jul 28, 2019

### choppergirl

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Resurrected thread(!)

35 years have passed, with a whole new generation that's never heard of ultralights. I can only speak for myself, we are plenty bored of our mobile phones and gaming rigs we don't even game on anymore, and slugging it out at retail job day in / day out to pay the rent or credit card debt we used to survive on (because govt programs are a joke here), with no sign of freedom on the horizon.

I myself, actually despise phones - but being able to text and check your email anywhere is handy. I didn't get a budget smart phone until.. finally a few months ago because it was required for work because I have to take pictures of my work and shoot it up the pipe to the company to view remotely.

A lot of people would lunge at a cheap ultralight that arrived on your doorstep from Amazon and you could put together like IKEA furniture by following a pictorial diagram. But most of them, I dare say, would not be milenials, but actually, a wide assortment of different people for different reasons.

But the key here is just trying to sell someone on plans don't cut it. People have no idea how to source parts and it's actually a huge job just sourcing raw materials.

It has to be a real box of parts. Not raw tubes, that you have to cut and drill and measure. Finished parts. That you bolt together with an included wrench. Like a pressboard bookshelf.

If my post giving a free ultralight was any indication... I found:

1. There were as many women as men that wanted the plane (to fly). That in itself was the most surprising thing to me. This place and every other aviation forum gives one a very distorted and skewed impression that the people who want to fly are 99.9% male. EAA events and chapter meetings look a little more diverse; I want to say maybe 66% male (guess)? But if my 200 or so responses are right, just as many women want to fly as men. So 50/50, right down the middle. Sarah/Beth/Dorlisa/Mary/Ashley/Sabrina/Karen... in the "From:" etc

2. Some of them had previous grandfathers/fathers in aviation, and want it because they grew up touched by aviation, or wanted it for their grandfather/father to restore who was now fiddle farting his last days away.

3. There were a few who wanted it as father/son projects, but it was not overwhelming in any way, as one might think from the skewed view you might get from other threads in this forum. There was one woman who wanted it because she had a dad into aviation and her daughter was named Alice and that it shared her daughters name got her real excited. So, mother / daughter project.. (!)

4. A few aeronatical engineers (with no flying experience (really?)) and A&P's, which surprised me. Why would someone who works on Gulf Stream jets at work day in and day out want a... 40 year old Woodhopper made of sticks?

5. A few past general aviation pilots that no longer could afford to fly.

6. If there were any milenials, I got no indication of their age from their post. Not saying they weren't in there, I just couldn't tell from their speech or description of their connection to aviation.

7. Some scrappers, that had no idea or respect for anything historical and wanted throw the airplane in the dumpster and sell the engines and few aluminum tubes. They went straight to my trash box.

8. Some people, that just jumped at anything "free" and interesting.

9. Some who saw it as a huge crafty fun project (ala Martha Stewart)where at the end that have something that says "wow, we made an airplane!

So if you design a low cost ultralight airplane project, you can bet:

1. You will have a lot more interest that you think. The impression one gets around here is that aviation is dying, dead, and that you have to build anything yourself from nothing but a plan so might as well build a fast metal tin can that can take you from point A to point B. But then really, is that all there is? You're missing a whole other audience. For me, I see flying as an extreme sport, not a high speed rail train. Think skateboarder / skydiving / rock climbing / planking / aerial silks. Therefore my many clashes with the rule following radio gibberish speaking rail train fast metal tin can general aviation crowd. It's a different point of view. Once you get in the air, what are you going to do? Make time going from A to B, or have some fun and Play, Play? I don't want to be at Point B, if I did, I'd be there already. So that leaves.. .fun.

2. The interest will be from a wide range of people for a lot of different reasons. Your marketing should be a lot broader than the narrow market you think it would appeal to (for example, trying to market it as a father son project, when that is only a small slice of the pie). And also, it may not be milenials you want to target exclusively either. I'm not saying they won't be in there, I'm just saying they will be only one slice of the huge pie of types of customers.

3. Fear did not seem to be a factor keeping people away from aviation. I kind of consider flying a Woodhopper to be an extreme sport... the people that wrote me were blissfully unaware that flying is dangerous, the enthusiasm just kind of avalanched over such a thought. Which is understandable, replying to a post for something free where you get excited to find something you want. Anyway, that enthusiasm makes sales. After the sale, and spending all those hours assembling it and imagining yourself flying in it, reality will set in and the level headed measured approach to flying the thing can set in.... include some instructional manuals, flight sims, and books in your kit... how to go from babysteps off the runway to flying like a boss in the air, practicing one step at a time... in the same way Apollo flew tons of redundant missions, each time perfecting something, before they inched ever closer to their final goal of landing on the moon and getting back.

4. It's sad this forum only represents or serves 10% hardest core of the people who actually want to fly (those hell bent on doing whatever it takes no matter how labor intensive, expensive, or insane... building a plane from scratch). What if everyone had to build a car from scratch... only 10% would be driving, and the most funky assortment of vehicles out there on the road .The cars on the road in American would then probably look homebuilt / cobbled together funky steampunk cool...

5. If one marketed an airplane exclusively to women, they could clean up. Nobody has ever done that, ever, and that's 50% of the underlying market completely neglected. Imagine marketing cigarettes only to men. Boom, rebelious flapper girls comes along in the 1920's and start smoking, then again with the 60's and sexual revolution. Boom some corporate exec thinking out side the box looking at the statistical charts says, lets come out with a cigarette just for women.. .and we'll call it Virginia Slims and hawk it as a diet substitute like coffee and cigarettes. Boom, they clean up. Because a cowboy on a horse speaks to some, and a camel in the desert to others, but not to a whole bunch of the other half judged critically day in and day out based on their attractiveness and looks and not wanting to look old West macho or be Lawerence from Arabia.

~

Hey rich GA pilot. If you want a $100 hamburger, go to Burger King, and order a Double Whopper for$3.21 using the mobile app. Then give the person building a burger a \$96.79 tip. You'll make their day.

Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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15. Jul 28, 2019

### pictsidhe

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Chopsy, I know what you are talking about. After building and thoroughly testing my plastic-fantastic plane, I'd like to go into production.
A giant 48:72 scale Airfix kit with a zillion parts inside. Actually, the engine really needs to be in a separate box... A basic kit would be the preformed plastic parts. There will be a number of other parts, which could be scratch built or included in the deluxe kit.

16. Jul 30, 2019

### mcrae0104

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If you don't realize how free you are, no additional amount of freedom will help you. You're not being very true to your self-avowed anarchist roots when you complain you can't make it because you're not getting a handout.

You are the pilot-in-command of your economic destiny. You can choose to continue to ***** about it, or take command of the situation. Your call.

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17. Jul 30, 2019

### choppergirl

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Alright then, all implied social contracts are off. I divorce my species.

Plane project in my front yard and two in the shop says I already took command of the situation.

I haven't stopped working on them; I've stopped sharing about them.

You disregarded the core message of my post, and zero in on some minutia.

Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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18. Jul 30, 2019

### mcrae0104

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I didn't disregard the core message, I dismissed it.

19. Jul 30, 2019

### BBerson

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I am working on an IKEA simple ultralight.... but not really interested in selling any.

20. Jul 30, 2019

### bifft

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Regarding 5) I read somewhere that the reason Cessna went to yokes over sticks is that it made it easier to get in the cockpit wearing a skirt. So there have been some attempts in that direction.
Certainly more success in this area could double the market.