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  1. Oct 16, 2015 #1

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

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    All aircraft wiring done, complete installation of dual Garmin G3X 370's, GTN-650, autopilot, ADS-B in and out, too much to mention here. Full IFR package, dual com radios.

    275 hours labor included. $46500. All wiring done to FAA certified standards.

    Does this sound reasonable?

    T-51 Panel dual GDU 370's.jpg
     
  2. Oct 16, 2015 #2

    TFF

    TFF

    TFF

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    Yes I can believe it.
     
  3. Oct 16, 2015 #3

    Joe Fisher

    Joe Fisher

    Joe Fisher

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    I always say the engine should cost more than the radio.
     
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  4. Oct 16, 2015 #4

    Topaz

    Topaz

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    No, it is not "reasonable". It's probably about the going rate for that work (I really don't know), but it is not "reasonable".
     
  5. Oct 16, 2015 #5

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

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    That quote represents a huge discount on labor, plus a very good price on the avionics package. The radios / GPS alone was over 30K.

    Talk to a Cessna owner who has just done a complete panel do-over / upgrade. My friend who has a Grumman spent $75,000 and does not have half the things we will get.
     
  6. Oct 16, 2015 #6

    Blue Chips

    Blue Chips

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    275 hours = almost two months straight of full eight hour days, in all fairness, I've no real clue but that seems highly unlikely to me in spite of the obvious complexity of the installation. Would be one beautiful set up none the less.
     
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  7. Oct 16, 2015 #7

    Dana

    Dana

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    That's more than seven times what my airplane cost!

    Dana
     
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  8. Oct 16, 2015 #8

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

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    The factory states 100 hours for the basic kit wiring. 250 hours for the installation of our complete package. Those are real numbers, for the complete install, plus custom water-jet cut panel, powder coating and laser labeling.
     
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  9. Oct 16, 2015 #9

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

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    Avionics are not cheap, even though the prices on the experimental stuff from Garmin are cheap by comparison to the certified avionics. Shop labor rates are high, running close to $100/hour.
     
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  10. Oct 16, 2015 #10

    Blue Chips

    Blue Chips

    Blue Chips

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    I expected that you had or in the process of doing your homework on that install, no one I know of would just drops that amount of cash on some company's good word.
     
  11. Oct 16, 2015 #11

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    I can certainly believe the 30k for the hardware since I'm facing almost the exact same bill for my next panel in the Rocket (actually 21k for the Skyview, but I already spent the $9,000 on the GTN650). It's an insane amount of money, but the same capability in an "STC'd" system is over $100k, so who knows? It has been my experience that dealers are forced to sell hardware at very low margin, so they really make their money on labor from people who can't or wont do the installation themselves. I've never done wiring anywhere near this scale, but I'm going to do it myself on the Rocket. I'm looking forward to it, actually.
     
  12. Oct 16, 2015 #12

    kent Ashton

    kent Ashton

    kent Ashton

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    If those two screen go black in IMC, what is your attitude reference? Spend $150 more for a DC-operated turn needle.
     
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  13. Oct 16, 2015 #13

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    ...or get a Stratus 2 and feed the AHARS info to your phone and tablet.
     
  14. Oct 16, 2015 #14

    gtae07

    gtae07

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    If he's spending that kind of money, another $1k or so for a Dynon D2 gives you full (albeit GPS-derived) attitude, altitude, track, and groundspeed with an internal backup battery. Under $2k gets you a GRT mini with full ADHARS, synthetic vision, and all the rest--again, with a backup battery.

    Yes, it's a little more expensive than an electric turn gyro... but if you're building a full-blown IFR glass panel, why would you leave yourself with the backup plan of analog partial-panel?

    If this were my panel (well, I'd have gone AFS or Dynon, not G3X, but that's personal preference), I'd drop all the round gauges and the standalone autopilot, use the integrated autopilot from the EFIS, and use the GRT mini for backup. It'd probably be cost-neutral at that point. This is my current working plan for the -7--dual AFS screens with the built-in autopilot and integrated comm radio. I'll have the blank space and pre-wiring in place for a GRT Mini and IFR nav equipment, so I can fit them later when I'm ready to do my IFR training.
     
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  15. Oct 16, 2015 #15

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

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    With the two GDU 370's I already have a backup, both with internal battery power if needed. Plus dual com. Triple GPS.

    We have a dual battery, dual bus electrical system with three power sources.

    But...we only have one engine.
     
  16. Oct 16, 2015 #16

    TFF

    TFF

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    The sad part is that 46Gs will be worth 9K in ten years. A quote from a friend,"the panel dates your plane." He has a nice Dynon setup only 5 years old, looking to repanel. One of the reasons he built his RV7 was to have an up to date panel from his RV8 instead of updating, along with side by side so his wife would be more happy. He was looking at building another last year, but came to his senses. Another friend with an RV8 grounded his plane to put a paint job on it because it flew for 5 years just in raw aluminum. He decided to do the panel over. It has been down for 8 years now and he is on his second panel upgrade since he stopped flying it. The RV guys have wiring harnesses made, more than one cottage industry out there, have the panel CNC cut and it makes it plug and play.
     
  17. Oct 16, 2015 #17

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

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    That begs the question...what is the ROI of any homebuilt? Can you recoup your expenses? Probably not labor, but the basic airframe should hold its value.
    As far as the avionics go, sure, it will be out of date in 24 months. Not much we can do about that. Just like the 777's that I fly. They are out of date by GA standards. But they still get you there.
     
  18. Oct 16, 2015 #18

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    Depends on how you look at it. The panel in the -8 is no longer considered state of the art and certainly will not add the $30k premium to the airplane that it once would, but it is no less capable than it was when new. It still gives fantastic situational awareness and will fly a coupled approach. True, the graphics are not as sharp as today's, but it is still a very effective tool.

    And I think it boils down to "tools" or "toys". Some need to always have the latest just for bragging rights. This is no different than home theater systems, computers, or ski equipment... some people like the "hobby" aspect of continuous upgrade.

    Personally, I'm going for the latest and greatest on my panel just the one time and hope to ride the equipment until it is no longer supportable.
     
  19. Oct 16, 2015 #19

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    Any of you guys remember the airplane? It's that big thing that lifts all of your avionics up into the air.

    The value and appropriateness of the avionics package has to be relative to the aircraft and its mission. Gulfstream rocketing white collar criminals around the globe? Sure, put in a million dollar instrument panel. Pietenpol flying Young Eagles around the farm fields on a summer day? Airspeed and oil pressure.

    A lot of people spend a LOT of money on avionics, and don't think about the things that really keep an airplane safely in the air. This is a huge problem from my crabby old point of view.
     
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  20. Oct 16, 2015 #20

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    Very true. The RV crowd is as bad as anyone when it comes to "exceeding requirements". Many have redundant displays for a day/VFR only airplane, and back that up with tablets and hand held GPS.

    ...all to make sure they can find their way to the airport 35 miles away with the Saturday morning pancake fly in.
     
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