2.0 Ecotec 260HP

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Alan Waters

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EcoTec 2 This is the engine I plan to use in my first build. I'd like to hear from anyone who has used one. 4 cylinder all alum. tubro very smooth running engine
 

bmcj

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Neat! I didn't see a weight listed; do you know what it is? Are you planning to run a PSRU reduction unit? Harmonic dampener?
 

Alan Waters

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I Don't know the weight. Trying to find it. The reduction unit I know nothing about. Are you slowing the prop or the engine?
 

bmcj

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Slow the prop down. Propellers normally turn in the mid 2000 rpm range (at full power) but an engine like that is happier at a higher rpm, so you'll need to reduce down to keep the prop turing slower than the engine.


Bruce :)
 

PTAirco

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Looks like a nice engine, but just what is so "eco" about a supercharged 2 liter engine??

The buzzwords "eco" and "green" etc have become utterly senseless...
 

Dan Thomas

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Looks like a nice engine, but just what is so "eco" about a supercharged 2 liter engine??

The buzzwords "eco" and "green" etc have become utterly senseless...
Yeah! And what about the 260 hp claim from 2 litres? 2L is about 120 cubic inches, so they're getting almost 2.2 hp per cube. I'd like to know how much boost they're using, what RPM, and what they do with the massive waste heat. And just how long the engine lasts if you try to extract that much power for five minutes.

See, the car makers like to publish these fantastic figures so young bucks will buy those cars. They don't tell you, though, that this 260 hp is an absolute peak power that you'd never get out of it on an extended basis. The engine just can't take the heat and pressures and other stresses imposed on it for very long. Indy racers use small engines that run at high boost pressure and RPMs, but they get, if they're lucky, one whole race out of them. And those are engines that were built by some finicky engineers out of expensive materials; they aren't production units found on the dealer's lot. They cost a heap of money.

For airplanes, we need an engine that will last and keep us in the air. So we have engines that give us about half a horse per cubic inch. WWII airplanes had supercharged engines that could produce closer to a horse per cube, but they had rather short TBOs; maybe 200 or 300 hours. And even then they blew up sometimes.

I put a 2.2 Subaru in a Glastar. Rated 130 hp at 5600 RPM. Used a ground-adjustable prop and RAF redrive, about 2.1:1 reduction. Prop maxed at about 2550 RPM when the engine was at 5600.

But here's the rub: At 5600, the engine wear, noise, and fuel consumption were spectacular. Piston speeds above about 30 fps cause increasing metal loss. And at high power settings the skinny little valves would burn if we didn't run pretty rich. So we would instead cruise at 4700 max, with the prop set for 5600 at full throttle in level flight (the same way other fixed-pitch prop pitches are determined), and ended up with a poor cruise speed because the prop was only turning a bit more than 2200 RPM. But a Lycoming O-320, say, rated at 150 hp at 2700 RPM, can cruise at any RPM up to 2700 for its entire certified TBO and cruise speeds will be where they should be. No auto engine could ever match that.

Lycoming and Continental do it by being conservative in their HP ratings and accepting weight penalties. Better heavy than unreliable.

Dan
 

Midniteoyl

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You can get that from the ecotech... these things run up to something close to 400hp in racing applications... with stock internals! Hot rod Mag just upped the LSJ w/o getting into the internals. They went so far as to use a TVS 1900 supercharger, 63 lb/hr injectors, hotter cams, and a header. They ended up making 372 hp with the final setup w/o changing the intercooler setup (although it was discussed in the article they could hit 400hp if they did).
 

pepsi71ocean

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it is hard to say what the boost level of the engine is, according to the calculations i did the engine needs to run 15-20lbs of boost to get 205HP, but once again that can't be accurate, there are way to many things that can be done to get that HP out of the engine, If you run bigger injectors with higher pressure lines that will increase your base HP over that of the block HP. if such is the case it can change the whole VE of the engine and thus the HP and boost.

You need to find the boost and the BSFC first before you can say that the engine runs x amount of boost for example.



1,400HP i casn't believe, that is over a 200% increase, especially for the displacement of the engine, now 400HP is the most i could see that engine putting out, and even then ITS NOT A RELIABLE 400 HP. just remember that.
 

Kupo Kupo

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1,400HP i casn't believe, that is over a 200% increase, especially for the displacement of the engine, now 400HP is the most i could see that engine putting out, and even then ITS NOT A RELIABLE 400 HP. just remember that.
I can see 1400hp in race trim. I remember back in the late 90's, when import drag racing was a craze, a couple of 1400-1600hp 4cyl tube chassis racers were making a big scene. I think a few were published in some of the 'tuner' magazines, if anyone still reads them. When you think about it, 1400hp isn't all that much in comparison to the 7000 some horsepower in Top Fuel.
Vlad
 

pepsi71ocean

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I can see 1400hp in race trim. I remember back in the late 90's, when import drag racing was a craze, a couple of 1400-1600hp 4cyl tube chassis racers were making a big scene. I think a few were published in some of the 'tuner' magazines, if anyone still reads them. When you think about it, 1400hp isn't all that much in comparison to the 7000 some horsepower in Top Fuel.
Vlad
i should rephrase, i mean reliable HP. When you do the math the numbers don't make sense unless your running past redline rpm wise, i mean 8K plus. then i could see that, but i wouldn't trust it for my life.
 

Alan Waters

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I don't know how they would get that amount of power. I've been involved in building PRO Mod cars using 706 cu.in. with 3 stages of nitros that were only making about 2500 HP.
 

Kupo Kupo

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i should rephrase, i mean reliable HP. When you do the math the numbers don't make sense unless your running past redline rpm wise, i mean 8K plus. then i could see that, but i wouldn't trust it for my life.
I guess reliable is a relative term. When the engines only have to live for about 5 minutes (warm-up, staging, race) before a rebuild, you can afford to put out ungodly amounts of power.
Vlad
 

PTAirco

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nitrous=crap, water/meth FTW(For The Win)

Those are really two different things - water methanol injection by itself does little; its only purpose is to control detonation coupled with extremely high boost pressure. Unless your blower is capable of producing such pressures, it won't increase your power on its own.

Nitrous, however will boost power whether the engine is supercharged or not.
 

pepsi71ocean

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Those are really two different things - water methanol injection by itself does little; its only purpose is to control detonation coupled with extremely high boost pressure. Unless your blower is capable of producing such pressures, it won't increase your power on its own.

Nitrous, however will boost power whether the engine is supercharged or not.
What you are thinking of is an ADI system which is necessary on carborated engines. increasing the octane of fuel burned will do the same thing.

However if you over boost your ADI system you will find out that you can increase your compression ratio effectively increasing your HP and TQ through the band. This coupled with a large tank will allow you to run waterinjection non stop for racing applications.


water/meth injection increases the compression ratio in the cylinder and the methanol is alcohol, when injected the water raises compression for more power, and the methanol is what they use in alcohol racing, that is why alcohol engines run 12:1.

The water is turned to steam by the sheer head put off by the manifold which when it is compressed it is less compressible then air, which helps add room/volume to the cylinder, so on the compression stroke it causes a higher cylinder psi, typically about 10-20psi over the stock compression.


Alot of piston fighters used water/meth injection to add 500-1,200 horsepower to their engines, they couldn't use it for long though because after your ran the injection you literally had to rebuold the engine. butthat is because they would turn the Merlin for example from a 1,500HP to a 2,200+HP engine.


Many racing diesels use water/meth injection. Simply because Diesels run better with higher compression, and water helps keep your EGT"s down.
 

PTAirco

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The water is turned to steam by the sheer head put off by the manifold which when it is compressed it is less compressible then air, which helps add room/volume to the cylinder, so on the compression stroke it causes a higher cylinder psi, typically about 10-20psi over the stock compression.


.

Hm I hadn't heard of that effect before, I'll have to do some reading on that. Any one else have any experience with the theory of water methanol injection?
 

pepsi71ocean

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