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1st time using T88

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Franklin63

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Sep 26, 2010
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That is a really good idea that strap jig. Looks like something to use if you are mass producing. I think I'll just stick with the simple jig using finishing nails for now.
I took my rudder edge out of the jig today and sanded it down with my belt sander and it looks nice. I am waiting for my thumbnail bit to come in the mail. I think while I am waiting I'll go ahead ans start on my rudder leading edge or rip 1/8" strips for the elevator and stabilizer laminations.
Its a lot of time management going on with me between my wife and kids and work. When I finally get to go to my garage it's like an escape. My rudder edge was in the jig for almost 100 hours. Gawd.
 

rheuschele

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Chicago Il. USA.
Try finding a small roller to apply the glue. Check the hardware stores for a trim kit. Or you can mix some up and put it in a small squeeze bottle i.e. mustard, that way all you have to do is brush it flat. Don't forget wax paper on anything you don't want glued to your work.

Don
I would suggest you don't do this.
1. you are going to go though
a bunch of rollers, money that can be put towards your glue. If you want a smooth, fast way to spread glue, use those credit cards you get in the mail.
2. Rollers will soak up twice the glue you intend to use, more money wasted not to mention time.
3. Rollers WILL leave pieces in between the glued parts without
actually gluing anything.
 

rheuschele

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Oh man that is a good idea. I can mix it in a squeezeable mustard bottle and then all I have to do is lay a bead and spread it.
I will definitely do that.
I still have a lot of laminating to do. That will help and I will also waste less glue.

There is a lot of good stuff on this forum.
:grin:
How are you going to keep cleaning out the bottle and nozzle?
Better buy those bottles by the dozen.
 

Franklin63

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Central Texas
I did some laminating of more 1/8" x 3/4" strips yesterday and I tried the mustard bottle and it worked good. I figured out how much glue I would need, poured equal amounts into plastic dixie cups, poured both into one dixie cup to mix it, then I poured that into the mustard bottle. I scraped as much as I could with a popsicle stick from the cups while mixing but I think I lost quite a bit inside the mustard bottle even though I squeezed it all out.
I laid a nice bead along the wood and just spread it with my finger using rubber gloves. I got every bit of the wood covered. It was fast and efficient. Thanks but I won't be doing that roller idea.
And the mustard bottle is a one-time use. Its a throw- away thing. What I want to find is some of those clear plastic squeezable kecthup bottles like you find in cafe's or diners and use those. It's not like I am mass producing stuff here.
 

jgnunn

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Jarrell, TX. Fly out of Taylor-T74
Sometimes simple is the best way...having built my wings with T-88, I had tried various approaches, and the method I finally found myself using was: squeeze a long bead from each bottle on to scrap material, the beads being next to each other and the same length, then mix with a popsicle stick [cut the round ends off of the popsicle]. Quick, simple, reasonably accurate, and no waste.
 

steveair2

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I mix mine the way Beej suggested. I use a eight and a half by eleven legal pad to mix the glue on. When finished just tear off the sheet and toss.
On the next wood project I will try the cartriges PTAirco suggested.
 

Franklin63

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Central Texas
I like the keep it simple method too and it is down to that.
Next time I will do the 2 beads next to eachother on a paper pad or something. Mix em, and thats it. Maybe fold a crease in the scrap cardboard or paper the mixing is done on to make a good pouring. Minimal waste there.
Thanks everyone for all the advice. It has been a great help.:)
 

flyboy67109

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Apr 24, 2008
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Mesa, AZ
I use t88 on my HiMax. It's all wood and cloth. The leading edge of the tail is laminated 1/4"x1" by four layers. Put wax paper between anything you don't want glued top the wood or you won't get it off. Don't thin it down unless you want your plane to fall apart on you. 50:50 mix. I use a digital scale I picked up at Target. You can pick up a mixing gun if you want but I feel the scale works fine. I also mix the glue up in disposable bathroom cups. Not the waxed ones. And stir it with craft sticks. Both can be picked up at someplace like Target or Walmart. The gun just frustrated me and I ended up throwing it out.
 

flyboy67109

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Also, don't rush. You have about 90 mins to an hour before it set to the consistency of soft vinyl. After that, it won't stay together reliably. Let it sit at least 4 hours before you remove the clamps and sand after it has set overnight. I learned these numbers the hard way. I've removed clamps before 4 hrs and it looked good until the next day when I saw gaps. Sanded the part before it hardened overnight and the work looked like crap. I get to the point now that I glue in the morning before I go to work and let it set until I get back home 10 hrs later. Sand anything that needs sanding from the day before.
 

Franklin63

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Although I've not built a plane of my own, I thought this might be adaptable to you're, or others, problem.

As a kid, I did a bit of 'steam bending' when making a coffee table, the legs of which were nicely bowed. First, in order to get two sets the same, a jig was built around which the steam softened wood was to be formed. Next we made a tin strap with wooden handles which was to to be used in pulling the wood around the jig. See attached image.
When in use, no clamps are needed on the curves portions, only at the very ends. In your case, a couple on the straights might be advisable.

PS in the note on final image, the word should be 'stack', not stake.
This is just to say thanks deskpilot because I used your suggestion after all with the strap jig idea.
I got some metal banding material from the lumber yard, they were throwing it away anyway. And I used a steering whell puller I've had for ten years. It seams to be working good.
I think I'll use the same idea when I do the curved leading edge of my stabilizer.
( I am builiding a plane that has a lot of curved edges. J3 cub looking plane)


Here in this photo I am forming the curved trailing edges of my elevator:

 
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steveair2

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WOW! That is GREAT! You could produce laminated bows quick with that method. Thanks for the pictures of your good work. Please post more.
 

Jock

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Hilton,New York,US
The design I'm working on gives an option for at least one lamination on the project.The rudder trailing edge can be a.) 10- 10mm x 3mm plywood laminations.(30mm) or b.) !0 mm marine plywood, cut to shape. Just a possible option.
 

keith103

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Nov 12, 2013
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Aurora, Denver,CO
Re: Using T88 - how hard should the clamps press ?

Hi ,

This is a useful thread for anyone like me, just starting out on a wood-centric home-built. Yesterday I tried glue-ing with T88, some wood joints with scrap plywood pieces. The joints came out super strong this morning.

However I had some issues with setting the clamps last evening. T-88 needs at least a few hours to start hardening, so as you are clamping, the pieces keep slipping and are difficult to hold in exact alignment. I suspect this is going to be a problem with this type of glue.

The second is regarding the amount of glue required to be retained at the joint before setting. Too much of clamp pressure and most of the glue is squeezed out and you wont have enough left at the joint, where it is really required.

A small amount of squeeze-out is not bad, because the squeeze-out hardens at the edges, further bonding the joint. If the joint is an internal part and not of cosmetic concern, I would not sand it, but just leave the squeeze-out as it is, to enable a stronger joint. I am talking only about the excess glue just at the edges, but not about excess overflows beyond the edges of the joint, which clearly need to be removed.

I read all the earlier posts on this thread, but I still have a lingering doubt about how much force is required in clamping. I bought a few 2-inch Steel Spring clamps from Lowe's but they are so strong that they squeeze out most of the glue, leaving very little to bond. I feel a C clamp might work better because you can tighten it just enough to hold the wood in place and yet not have all glue squeezed-out. On the flip-side, if the pressure is made less to prevent the squeeze-out, and then you have the parts slipping about, out of alignment. Clamps from PVC pipes are a nice innovation, but need both hands to operate the clamp, making it a bit hard to use. Clothes clip might be nice for smaller joints like wing-ribs, as they may not squeeze-out as much of the glue like the steel spring clamps.

Could some experienced members share their thoughts on this please ?

Thanks
 

TFF

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Heavy clamping pressure is not needed, like with resorcinol. Big spring clamps can squeeze out everything unless its a wide surface. With epoxy holding in relationship is more important. The glue line should be thin, but does not have to be perfect; that is why epoxy is so good. You should start out with enough to squeeze out when pushed to the perfect thickness. you want some to squeeze out to prove you have enough at the joint. If doing something like laminating a spar you put lots and clean up the mess.
 

Pops

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Never thin T-88. If you want it thinner, set each bottle in a small amount of warm water. But better, One part of t-88 is thicker than the other. So if I want it a little thinner, I just set the one bottle in warm water.

On my Koala, I made the rudder and elevators, stab, wing tips, and rear window frames the same way. I usually just do 2 strips at a time. Any more, all of that epoxy makes it hard to handle. I have glued and stacked them all together flat, then wrap with a rubber bands about every 6" and then put in the jig, a lot easier that way since the rubber bands are holding everything together, other wise, I run out of hands.
Dan
 

Pops

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Franklin63--- I see from the bottom of the rudder you put the slot in the wood for the hinges before building the rudder. Great, that's looking ahead. Nice looking job, I would put that on my airplane. Dan

Added-- Picture of my electric elevator trim servo. Very strong and light at 37 grams. I just mounted it on the outside since the airplane was built and flying. Plan on a little fiberglass streamline covering when I get around to it. If you want an elevator trim, now would be the time to think about it, not latter like me. Would be easy to mount the servo inside the elevator with a cover plate. Works great.
 

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TFF

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If you think you need a thinner product, System 3 has a product called Clear Coat which if you look at the specs is probably thinned T-88. I used it as a varnish but it is pretty thick; really for laminating. Strength specs almost exactly the same as T-88. It will therm if you mix big batches.
 

keith103

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Heavy clamping pressure is not needed, like with resorcinol. Big spring clamps can squeeze out everything unless its a wide surface. With epoxy holding in relationship is more important. The glue line should be thin, but does not have to be perfect; that is why epoxy is so good. You should start out with enough to squeeze out when pushed to the perfect thickness. you want some to squeeze out to prove you have enough at the joint. If doing something like laminating a spar you put lots and clean up the mess.
Great advice. Thank you.
 

keith103

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On my Koala, I made the rudder and elevators, stab, wing tips, and rear window frames the same way. I usually just do 2 strips at a time. Any more, all of that epoxy makes it hard to handle. I have glued and stacked them all together flat, then wrap with a rubber bands about every 6" and then put in the jig, a lot easier that way since the rubber bands are holding everything together, other wise, I run out of hands.
Dan
Nice idea. Thank you.
 
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