$10 gallon Avgas

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Pops

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And I can't take my 1981 3/4 ton chevy truck any distance where I can't get home on the tank of fuel. It WILL NOT pull itself with fuel with 10% ethanol. You can't keep the engine running. Same for my 1968 MF farm tractor.
 

Dana

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Is the corn lobby that strong in CT? It's strong in the midwest, but even here, the "mandate" is tied to the price of corn (because the corn lobby only wants it in fuel when the price is low?).
It is an amazingly interconnected world. The carburetor in my lawnmower needs replacing because Iowa is an early caucus state.
Thatone
 

rv7charlie

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And I can't take my 1981 3/4 ton chevy truck any distance where I can't get home on the tank of fuel. It WILL NOT pull itself with fuel with 10% ethanol. You can't keep the engine running. Same for my 1968 MF farm tractor.
Strange. My MF50 never cared in the least; only downside was I didn't get to change the plugs as often. ;-)
 

Pops

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In iowa ethanol free gas is very common. How ironic, eh?
My MF tractor is a 1968, 135 with a Continental 4 cylinder gas engine. Has not set outside one night and don't remember it getting rained on. Still looks almost new. Not usable with 10%.
 

John.Roo

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Nobody is happy when fuel prices are rising, but 10 USD / US gallon of AVGAS will not kill GA.
Check out prices of AVGAS in Europe...
In CR we actually pay arround 8,8-9,8 USD / US gallon.
And in some places in EU is already over 13 USD / US gallon.

From my friends operating legendary agricultural "crop duster" Z-37 Cmelak I know that CAA allowed to use MOGAS, but it was not good. They had problems to start engines and other issues.
Z-37.jpg
Some operators are using mix 50:50 (50% AVGAS, 50% MOGAS).
This seems to be acceptable compromise.
To understand me well - I don´t say that this mix is allowed, I just say how in EU some operators solve problems with very high fuel prices.

True is that pilots are now more thinking about "flight mission".
Are you going to fly alone just for fun "arround your chimney"?
You probably don´t need to use Cessna 172.
For example - as alternative is possible to rent two seat UL/LSA airplane for prices from 75 EUR / hour (price in CR including fuel, insurance etc.).

Negative is that higher price of fuel will affect numbers of hours flown = less experience = lower safety. Engines operated only on MOGAS will solve this problem for a while, but I don´t expect that price of MOGAS will stay low forever. And unfortunatelly is price of fuel totally in hands of governament (taxes applied on top of fuel price). If governament decide to support electric cars (airplanes, boats etc.) that is easiest way to apply another "green tax" on fuel. I am affraid that this will be near reality... at least in EU.

P.S.
I am fan of electric propulsion systems in aviation, but I also see limitations.
 

Yellowhammer

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Hope this does not happen...but the likelihood of $10/gallon 100LL is a real possibility, in 12 to 24 months.

The Saudi-Russian oil war is impacting the US energy industry, in a very negative way. It is rumored that a barrel of oil could drop to $10. We all like cheap gas, but this will force many of the smaller oil well operators and fracking companies in Texas, Louisiana, and North Dakota out of business.

I listened to a long interview yesterday with the former Secretary of Energy, Rick Perry.

He laid out a scenario that will impact all of us, both in driving cars (if we ever get out of house arrest), and flying aircraft.

If 100LL hits 10 bucks, you will be able to pick up GA aircraft at fire sale prices.

At least with the T-51, we can burn auto gas, probably 6 to 8 bucks a gallon.
 

Dan Thomas

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Nobody is happy when fuel prices are rising, but 10 USD / US gallon of AVGAS will not kill GA.
It sure would cut way back on GA here. We had numerous European flight school students come here because the cost of flying in Europe was way beyond their budgets. At a time when our 172 were renting for about $130 (Canadian), pilots in England were paying as much as $400 CDN for a 172. It wouldn't be just the fuel, of course. Lots of taxes and other hindrances, too.
 

Bill-Higdon

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It sure would cut way back on GA here. We had numerous European flight school students come here because the cost of flying in Europe was way beyond their budgets. At a time when our 172 were renting for about $130 (Canadian), pilots in England were paying as much as $400 CDN for a 172. It wouldn't be just the fuel, of course. Lots of taxes and other hindrances, too.
Also lots of Asian students for the same reason
 

Dana

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Moderator note:. I deleted 7 posts that were political. I know it's hard to discuss fuel prices without getting into politics, but these weren't about fuel any more.
 

PMD

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Of course, what I did not see (did not get to read whole thread) is that the ultimate solution is to go to an affordable fuel - i.e. diesel, JetA, etc. with very high energy storage density. If I might be so bold as to do some speculation: ultimately liquid hydrogen (even better energy density than diesel) will work best in aviation (where batteries at 50x the energy storage density are totally ridiculous).
 

Hot Wings

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Ran across this today:
With an approved replacement for 100LL, even if the STC list is still a short list, how long can the EPA be kept from banning leaded aviation fuel?
How much is the STC going to cost?
 

Vigilant1

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It would be interesting to see how GAMI came up with their cost estimate of "60 to 85 cents more than 100LL". Presumably, the sale price would depend on supply and demand. If folks are fine with burning 100LL and no one bans 100LL, then it would be priced about the same.
I think the conversion to this fuel will be quick. The FAA should streamline this, it's not clear that the normal STC hoop dance is either warranted or appropriate.
Anyway, per the title of this thread: anyone who was predicting that 100LL would soon go to $10/gal should be darn happy to pay approx $6.50 for this stuff, if it works as well as they claim.
 
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skydawg

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Many states, starting with California, stated they will be outlawing AVGAS as soon as approved alternative becomes available.… regardless of cost. GA just got even more expensive.

My C172 has a V8 engine that’s flex fuel rated and rarely burn AVGAS in it, mostly just low octane ethanol car gas from local station or airport FBOs that have an on field pump for ground equipment. I converted engine mostly to reduce operating cost, which went from over $60 to less than $20/hr with the V8, but also to eliminate the need of buying and exhausting leaded gas. The engine had several other benefits like not needing an engine run-up before takeoff as there was no lead to burn from the plugs. it well Out performs any stock C172 model, so there‘s a lot of other benefits besides lower cost.

Point being, leaded fuel was outlawed decades ago as it should have, except for aircraft AVGAS, which Continental and Lycoming some how convinced governments to allow making the same engine for the next 5 decades Which required the lead.…. And likely allow them to make the same engine for another few decades. If the engine manufacturers upgraded their design, or were forced to by regulations as other engine industries, the issue would have been solved long ago. Now, most of us will have to pay more to keep flying the same engine.
 

blane.c

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Fact Sheet – Leaded Aviation Fuel and the Environment (faa.gov)

From HBA thread;
"100-no lead: Not world changing, but a good move in a good direction"

 
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