10/23 Raptor Video

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TarDevil

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Jun 29, 2010
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946
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Coastal North Carolina/USA
I get it, you own SDS, congrats
Yes, he does... and I greatly appreciate his easy-to-understand, non-condescending manners in this forum. You seem to resent it, but he indeed has a resume to match his words.
by your logic that 72 degree setpoint should disappear or not be displayed
Ross, are you now selling home thermostat systems?
 

rv6ejguy

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Jun 26, 2012
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Lets agree to disagree. I'm in crank angle camp.

The 20mg fuel that was observed is NOT an analog input. It is some sort on offset, very likely created by PM. It could be a MINIMUM fuel to inject per event/cylinder.

You can be in any camp you want. Both methods obviously work. I'm simply saying that sensing crank angle vs. MAP isn't necessary as proven by our real-world results.

20mg of fuel represents about 20% power in this case. Would be no reason to have it set this high. Not sure why you're harping at my original observation from the logs that FF must be zero and should be displayed as such with the engine stopped. That's all I said. Your long winded explanations don't alter this reality...
 
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PPLOnly

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Dec 12, 2020
Messages
158
I wonder if he will sell the powerplant as a package alone with his tune, or if this is just for him and he will offer suggestions and guidance on selecting an ECU and tuning the engine.
 

flywheel1935

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Nov 1, 2018
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516
Location
Downham Market, Norfolk, Great Britain.
I wonder if he will sell the powerplant as a package alone with his tune, or if this is just for him and he will offer suggestions and guidance on selecting an ECU and tuning the engine.
Oh , come on now, do we all honestly think the cRaptor will ever be offered in 'Kit Form', The more dramas he has the less credibility the project has.
Would you buy an aircraft from him? & to be honest I wouldn't buy his secondhand Audi off him, it probably never had a service or oil change in its life.
I just wonder who these West Coast Dreamers are? If I followed this soap opera my cash would be well and truly kept in my back pocket. He even questioned why he should open up the oil filter, but it was explained to him that all the oil system would require cleaning and purging in case of shrapnel, but this was dismissed as not necessary :eek:
This should prove interesting.
 
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Mike0101

Active Member
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Aug 24, 2020
Messages
37
As someone who has written embedded control software, I think you've missed the point badly.

The objections raised by rv6ejguy cannot be answered by jumbled long-winded explanations of how you think the Motec ECU software might utilize multiple cores. If its behavior is wrong, it's flawed software regardless of how many cores it runs on.

It may or may not be true that the flaw is related to the use of multiple cores. Doesn't matter. Even if (as you end with) it's just a case of reporting the fuel flow setpoint, if it's doing that and displaying it as the indicated current fuel flow even when the true flow is 0, that's still a flaw.

So if you go back a few of my post ago, I mentioned that on some SI ECUs it is possible set or force minimum values, 2ms as an example injector open pulse width. I've seen it, even some OEMs have minimum fall back value. You may or may not see it depending on which registers are being scanned/read. I can't say with certainity whats going on with PM diesel ECU as I haven't used one. But looking at video after engine stops, offset is dead flat, which to me says something is amiss in tables or setup, or minimum values has been force, or alot of other things.

It could be something as simple as reading SP (setpoint) versus PV (process variable) register, again I don't know. But to jump in say it's flawed based on youtube view of logging software and not knowing exactly what each variable is makes me laugh.

Edit - didn't quote correctly.
 
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tsap

New Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
3
Oh , come on now, do we all honestly think the cRaptor will ever be offered in 'Kit Form', The more dramas he has the less credibility the project has.
Would you buy an aircraft from him? & to be honest I wouldn't buy his secondhand Audi off him, it probably never had a service or oil change in its life.
I just wonder who these West Coast Dreamers are? If I followed this soap opera my cash would be well and truly kept in my back pocket. He even questioned why he should open up the oil filter, but it was explained to him that all the oil system would require cleaning and purging in case of shrapnel, but this was dismissed as not necessary :eek:
This should prove interesting.
If he has the connections to talk to Silicon Valley venture capital, strange things can happen. VC investors are rich people looking to make big piles of money into even bigger piles of money while getting a thrill out of it. Instead of investing in safe things, they spray investments across a portfolio of high risk / high reward startups, hoping that the successes more than make up for the more numerous failures.

When this works, they get to pat themselves on the back for being clever visionaries helping to invent the future. When it doesn't, they just shrug it off as breaking a few eggs to make an omelet. All Peter has to do is successfully pitch a few of them on how disruptive his sky-SUV will be to the traditional GA industry. There's a chance he can do it; people have been talking tech VCs into investing in no-hope ideas for a long time.
 

malte

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Feb 5, 2011
Messages
141
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Flensburg / Germany
Nice and simple doesn't come along for free. Nice and simple requires in depth knowledge, hard thinking, good testing and possibly many iterations. A process Mr. Müller probably has no urge to go through. His "Design" principle is to add stuff, not to simplify.

I fear, this incident will confirm Mr. Müller in his perceived abilities, especially when handling emergency situations. This could well add to his normalisation of deviation, that we talk about for a long time already. After all, for every engineer involved with flight testing or design of aircraft (or parts thereof) it was just a question when the engine would fail, nit if it would fail. All I know hoped it would fail on the ground, but glad he didn't hurt himself.

It would be a great opportunity for PM to rectify much of his design flaws, even silently.

As for the wing ground contact, I have seen delaminations on glider wings after such landings. I sure would at least tap-test the structure, note the wings natural oscillation frequency and take a look at the attachments. Doesn't take that long and then you could make an educated guess on structural health.
 

donjohnston

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Oct 9, 2016
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110
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Panama City, FL
Well I follow the raptor soap some years, not just two days, I just joined this forum because there are a lot of serious people like rv6ejguy and others here with real experience and expertise I learn a lot from as, especially in aviation, you are never too old to learn .
If you have followed this raptor soap for 7658 posts and several years, you should have noticed that what the serious people here with real knowledge and expertise predicted some years ago was right.

(Fatal) crashes in self designed home build aircraft due technical failure are in most cases a result of a builder with a mentality which does not fit save aviation .
Not one of those... points has any relevance on your commenting about another users post being the "most ridiculous of 2021".

What is your engineering background in composites?
 

gpen6

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
7
Location
Cooperstown,ND/USA
The thing is you don't need any of this (over) complication to make an aviation engine or automotive race one run well. The CPU operates much faster than the relative glacial pace that mechanical events in the engine occur at. The proof is that SDS is on the fastest EFI equipped vehicle in the world- Andrew Findlay's 2 time Reno winning Lancair- over 430 mph on telemetry. This engine runs on the ragged edge of destruction, so it's a challenging environment.

For MAP, you simply take multiple samples in software and average them before the injection event. Crank angle doesn't need to be considered.

You are coming back to justifying these display errors here. There is zero fuel flow and airflow with the engine not running- period, end of story. To display anything other than zero is erroneous.

Typically with throttle closed (SI), we shut off the fuel in automotive applications so there is no fueling to worry about there. With a throttle plate, we don't care what upstream pressure is because that's separated from the engine and the MAP sensor anyway.

SDS displays all sensor inputs, engine running or not but they all read correctly at least. Why wouldn't MoTec?

MoTec makes some of the best ECUs around, no argument there, but you simply need the AFR and spark timing to be correct- period. We've run SR20 race engines back to back on the dyno, SDS vs. MoTec and the result was no difference in power.

Peter's fiddling may have resulted in this FF display error. I certainly don't know enough about MoTec to say but at least with SDS, the user cannot manipulate anything with programming to have FF display anything other than 0 with the engine not running, so I'd say that's something in the MoTec architecture which could be addressed.
Just a thought from someone who does embedded software every day Hex "FF" could be an singed 8 bit integer; that is -1 (negative 1) in signed integer math, many software people use -1 to "return" an error to the calling function. Maybe that's what is being displayed because the software displaying that number doesn't know how to deal with it as an err.
 

BoKu

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Western US
Not one of those... points has any relevance on your commenting about another users post being the "most ridiculous of 2021"...
See, there it is--they said it was the most "ridicules" post, not the most ridiculous.

BTW, I rewound and rewatched the wing strike several times. It was an ouchie, but I've see so much worse with no damage. I'd probably just look for surface distress, and give it a shake to watch for unusual gyrations or bad noises. And Peter has probably done that.
 

RJW

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Feb 9, 2011
Messages
710
Location
Wisconsin and Kansas
From the last two videos PM seems to be implying the seal on the turbo failed and that's what caused the engine failure? My guess is the engine came apart first and then blew out the turbo and redrive seals. Is he even going to tear down the motor to see what happened? Did I miss that part? I would have that thing in pieces in a minute. When a piston busts or a rod lets go you can be pretty sure that very little in the engine will escape damage. Junk from the blown engine often migrates to the intake tract as well.

Rob
 
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