10/23 Raptor Video

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C Michael Hoover

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^^^^^ this ^^^^^^
An engine out that doesn't cause anybody any major problems is not an emergency at all.

I may have posted this before, please forgive the repetition if needed. Many moons ago, one nice day I had a spinner come off and lost some of the propeller on an RV-3, and felt I had to shut the engine down in flight. Landed the airplane in a local riverbed, managed to not damage it. Panicked, I immediately jumped a fence and ran over to a local store, and put coins into a pay phone to call the FAA FSDO office. I was terrified that they would come out and cut up my license in front of me.

"Was any one killed?"
No, sir.
"Was any one in the airplane or on the ground injured?"
No, sir.
"Were you injured?"
No, sir.
"Did any property on the ground get damaged?"
No, sir.
"Did anyone on the ground get frightened or angry?"
No, sir.
"Have a nice day... (dial tone)"

Very lo-res scan of photo that appeared in the next morning's newspaper"

View attachment 107248
I shut down Baltimore Washington International one morning at about 7:00 AM in low IFR conditions. I lost all electric when the alternator field connection failed at the alternator. As I broke out at about 200'AGL I couldn't find the airport,so I guessed that the four-lane beneath me was the BW Parkway, so I turned north. When I saw the tower on the right and the water tank on the left I turned 180° and read the road sign that said Annapolis. I then figured that the road was MD Route 3 and the airport was to my west. I turned right and found the airport just before I crossed the fence, landed on 28 and was immediately surrounded by emergency vehicles. Taxied in and my wife calmly got out. I got out and up on the wing and the paramedics grabbed me as I was white as a sheet. Told the FBO to fix it, and the mechanic spoke very well about the cleanliness and maintenance of the aircraft to the FAA investigator.. Same investigator called me and I gave him the long version of what happened. He responded,"It looks like you just had your test and passed." End of story. Peter did way better than I!
 

Aesquire

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Any landing you can walk away from is a landing. Any landing you can fly the airplane later is a good landing.

I don't insist on the same day.
 

bmcj

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I was surpised that the "training" ATC tower did not ask the standard questions of the pilot when the emergency was declared: souls-on-board and fuel quantity/type? Perhaps the tower and PM had already coordinated this information to some extent but it is standard ARFF procedure to ask these questions.
The tower crew is probably very familiar with Peter and the Raptor, and knows that he is doing his Phase 1 solo flights.
 

231TC

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I don’t know about automatically scaling back power to save the engine... I’d much prefer to let the engine continue to run to save the pilot.
100% agree, but the theory is that it was just a consequence of the turbos not having enough oil (or something like that) not an intentional automatic scaling back of power...just a "lucky" accident.

Now I'm seeing comments that the turbos could not choke the engine out, so maybe it doesn't make sense. I know next to nothing about that stuff, so I'll wait for our turbo guys to chime in.
 

rv6ejguy

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If the turbos seized due to lack of oil, the engine would lose at least 80% of its power and maybe all of it- zero boost plus massive intake and exhaust restriction from the stationary blades.

Peter already pulled power way back when he became aware of the oil leak and had to to prevent overspeed and an immediate engine or prop failure.
 

Voidhawk9

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Timaru, NZ
For those of you just now joining us...
The recently replaced oil seal in the redrive came out, resulting in a massive oil leak. The reason for the seal failure is that PM did not install the retaining ring, because it was too difficult to do so.
On landing he hit the left wingtip hard, resulting in abrasion damage to the fence underneath.

I am concerned about Peter's approach going forward. Considering trimming off the damage on the wing and making the other match instead of repairing the damaged side.
Peter avoids composite work if at all possible, so this approach is not surprising.

Is there a chance the wing is structurally unsafe?
A careful inspection would seem warranted, at least.

The conclusion and path forward at this time appears to be:
1-I nstall oil seal properly this time and trim damaged wing fence.
2- Remove any coked oil in turbos.
3- Run the engine and listen for any strange noises.
4- Return to flight.
 

dave wolfe

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So what exactly made the engine stop? Im not buying the turbos seizing up argument because the engine starts up with turbos not spinning.
Was it the ECU?
Was it the engine seizing?

My bet is #2 but im not familiar with diesel ecu schemes.
 

Marc Zeitlin

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Is there a chance the wing is structurally unsafe?
There is always a non-zero chance, but it's close enough to be zero as to not warrant concern. Numerous canard aircraft have touched wingtips during crosswind or just hard landings - many times, folks don't even recognize that they've done so (me included - touched once and didn't realize it until I notice the flat spot on the bottom of the lower winglet at the next pre-flight). In any case, the damage to the lower fence on Raptor was relatively minimal and there was no obvious damage to the structure (also indicated by the extremely low, if any, noticeable deflection of the wing during the strike).

THIS would not be the thing that would prevent me from getting into the plane and attempting to fly it.
 

231TC

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Im not buying the turbos seizing up argument because the engine starts up with turbos not spinning.
Don't they spin during startup? There's exhaust when you crank the engine, not combustion exhaust, just compressed air, but doesn't that spin the turbos at low speed?
 

wsimpso1

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So what exactly made the engine stop? Im not buying the turbos seizing up argument because the engine starts up with turbos not spinning.
Was it the ECU?
Was it the engine seizing?

My bet is #2 but im not familiar with diesel ecu schemes.
I am not buying it either. The data log showed something like 19 psi in the manifold right up until shutdown, with around 43 psi at takeoff, so the turbos were still making some boost even then as PM had the power pulled back. We are speculating beyond the fact that the fuel did get interrupted - the engine shut down and fuel cut is how it is done in diesels.

I do not know enough about the mechanics of how VW operates their diesels to positively say, but there are low and high pressure pumps, a shutoff valve, a pressure regulator, etc, and they all interact. I would sure rather an airplane engine make power available even while the engine is being destroyed rather than drop me into some spot that will have low survivability...

Billski
 

dave wolfe

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Don't they spin during startup? There's exhaust when you crank the engine, not combustion exhaust, just compressed air, but doesn't that spin the turbos at low speed?
Yes they would spin a little but until the engine fires they would not be making any boost.
 

PPLOnly

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He’s a really good stick and a terrible mechanic. He missed his calling as a fighter pilot for sure. The type of guy that flies an F-15 back with 1 wing.

I didn’t hear any contemplation or parameters for pulling the chute mentioned. I wonder if he even considered it considering the energy he needs to land right now.
 
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