# 10/23 Raptor Video

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#### rbarnes

##### Well-Known Member
.Just curious...where did the two million dollars of OPM come from?
Must go now, a Nigerian Prince wants me to benefit from $10m he's got in his late Uncles account, life is so sweet !!!! Last edited: #### WonderousMountain ##### Well-Known Member Assuming 2 wings, tailplane, undercarriage, fuse, cockpit, engine, and electrics - that's 8 major systems. So 8 HBA members get picked out of a hat, and each gets 1/4 million to design their bit - which is also randomly chosen. What could possibly go wrong? The airshow patrons are going to love the salvaged two stroke V8 diesel, with Schweizer body, inverted V tail, Christmas lights instrument panel, ducted fan powered electronics, Ballon tires on willow staffs, with one RV wing, & one Pietenpol. Keep it in the middle of the air. #### rv6ejguy ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Mayday.... my compliments on a fair and honest assessment, versus the typical obnoxious, self righteous crap we unfortunately see on this forum (which I originally assumed to be designed to "assist" homebuilders... versus constant, never ending snarky efforts to criticize & demean his endeavors). Jay W. Sample Some of us offered our assistance free of charge but were rebuffed by Peter, saying that he knew better than people with decades of experience in various fields. We can only help those open to being helped... #### MaydayMayday ##### Member >Some of us offered our assistance free of charge but were rebuffed by Peter, saying that he knew better than people with decades of experience in various fields. We can only help those open to being helped... Ross and MANY others are amazing people...they spend countless hours helping people out and give advice here on this forum. All for free and never expecting to even meet the people that they helped...I always look forward to seeing their avatar on the post. Ross, you videos are very educational...Since PM did not listen to your turbo design advice you launched a video explaining the reasons and it educated thousands of us...and PM would have watched. THANKS!!! Now we have determined why people are so angry at PM...he simply does not listen to wise council...even the people he paid... Professionals shrug their shoulders and say "wow...I've worked for that guy before...not the first guy I met like that in aviation...kinda sad to be him" and move on. The "others"...I am amazed at the level of anger and hate...that's the part that I REALLY don't understand...and why the moderators don't stop it...I dust off this account only when thing get really bad. The Raptor thread was deleted before (sad that all of the positive and informative posts were flushed away with all of the negative snark) Well...see my above troll...I don't want to get the moderator to delete this account and then I will have to invent another throw away account...then another one... Last edited: #### rv6ejguy ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Now we have determined why people are so angry at PM...he simply does not listen to wise council...even the people he paid... I agree that some posts here serve little purpose. The alternate movie title ones recently, coming to mind. The people here who invested may have known what they were getting into though the one fellow I talked to at length, believed PM's sales pitch. If his$20K sum is returned, he'll be happy to have that back and learn a valuable lesson. Others who believed and put down \$500 are disappointed with the outcome so far and may be angry but they should have been able to get their money back too.

The part that didn't go down too well with most folks was Peter's arrogance and hubris on public display. Peter went very public way before Raptor was even fully conceived, let alone built, flown and tested. Right there, he opened himself up to widespread public ridicule if he failed and he even acknowledged that a couple years back in one video, saying people could crucify him if the design failed to meet specs but to let him complete the build so he could prove said critics wrong. The critics were right however and Peter is getting the flak now. No surprise to most.

I don't care if anyone listens to me, including Peter. The folks offering sound advice based on their knowledge and experience wanted to help Peter succeed, otherwise they would have been silent and just watch it fail.

So, while it seems some are angry here, it may be more that they are incredulous about PM's attitude towards design and safety. I fit in the latter category, believing PM has luckily dodged more than a few bullets already with Raptor and still doesn't fully appreciate the risk in some of his decisions. But those are his risks to take and I wish him safe flight.

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#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Mayday and Jay, I have an aviation question for you.

You are walking down the ramp at an airport, and you see a guy doing something that has a far higher probability of wrecking an airplane or hurting someone than average. You've seen unsafe or misguided stuff several times before, and you yourself have seen the harm it has caused.

Now whatever he's doing is something you yourself haven't done, but even though you have not done it you've seen arrogant and misinformed people wreck airplanes and hurt people just the same. So you know the odds are pretty high something is not going to turn out well.

Do you say something? Do you try to help the guy? Do you try to stop others from getting hurt? Do you have justification to talk to your friends about it?

#### galapoola

##### Well-Known Member
Mayday and Jay, I have an aviation question for you.
.........................................
Do you say something? Do you try to help the guy? Do you try to stop others from getting hurt? Do you have justification to talk to your friends about it?
It's real hard to know what a face to face, concerned for someone's safety conversation is based on this virtual conversation we all have. Most of the in person decorum gets dropped when you are virtual and of course people who are engineer-ish get right to the point. People pop off with impunity and a forum like this just makes it easier. That said, I'm glad that PM made his plane for no other reason than all that I've learned here. People have a variety of input and we all benefit from it.

#### wsimpso1

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Moderator Mode ON:
I just deleted 19 notes, none of which violated the CoC, but all of which trended that way. Watch your tone guys.
Moderator Mode OFF.

#### wsimpso1

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
The Dutch roll was unlikely because it is gone without modification. The cause was new pilot PIO. (see Marc Zeitlin comments)
That was what we thought. Then IIRC, PM told us when fixed the broken tip blade, enlarging it slightly, the airplane behaved better. Did he not also tell us he enlarged the other one too? Sounds like it *might* have been part PIO, part not enough vertical surface out there at the tip...

#### wsimpso1

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
Log Member
Ok...start pounding on me...but the truth is...he did something that I...and 99.5 percent of the people who are pounding on him could NOT do...he BUILT AN AIRPLANE...FROM SCRATCH...and HE FLEW IT
Actually, a number of folks here have built airplanes up from scratch and flown them. A much higher fraction than 0.5%. Some of them regular contributors to this thread.

Let's watch our tone everyone.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
That was what we thought. Then IIRC, PM told us when fixed the broken tip blade, enlarging it slightly, the airplane behaved better. Did he not also tell us he enlarged the other one too? Sounds like it *might* have been part PIO, part not enough vertical surface out there at the tip...
I think he smoothed the left one and trimmed the right to match but can't recall for sure.

#### MaydayMayday

##### Member
>Let's watch our tone everyone.

THANK YOU for moderating. A thankless but necessary job.

>Actually, a number of folks here have built airplanes up from scratch and flown them. A much higher fraction than 0.5%. Some of them regular contributors to this thread.

Yes there are a bunch of people who built from scratch...some guys are even serial new design builders...like one such guy who PM employed.

It would be interesting to see how many accounts are on homebuiltairplanes.com and how many of those people designed their own airplane and built it from scratch...and it flew... What percentage you reckon.. 0.5 percent. 5 percent...

Then it would be interesting to take that number of people and subtract the number of people who were already builders and decided to start from scratch and the people who were already working in the aviation industry.

We can all agree that PM...IF...only...IF...he would have tuned out all of the "noise" from the thousands of "contributors" and was able to focus in and listen to wise council from the few who actually know what the heck they are doing (a couple were employed by him)...hopefully the "new investors" will be able to take control and fix it.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
I never heard PM claim to be the designer. It seems more likely a group design, especially the RC model.
The stability seems ok for a first edition. Better than Burt's sideways flying prototype. Burt's original VW proved unsuitable and may be the case here as well.
I think it was a mistake to list any empty weight. It seems a case of too much public information.

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Mayday, you ain't seen 'hate and anger' by any stretch. You also (apparently) ain't been to anywhere near enough aviation funerals to understand what several of us here are seeing in our heads.

And I'm not nearly as old, experienced, or blood-stained as some other folks here.

#### ifthen

##### New Member
I believe that Dave R. and the Berkut group pivoted towards a UAV sub-contract or something as an unmanned sensor platform. If the Raptor gets "fixed" and can actually operate on Diesel fuel, then there may be some DOD or intelligence gathering niche market for it to haul around a sensor package that is too bulky for the other EZ derivatives. No idea whatsoever if this is even remotely feasible, but given that the cabin volume is higher than other EZ's... it's a potential move to try and demonstrate some "feature differentiator" for an investor to get behind.
This is correct. I worked for Dave twice in my career. Once way back in the early days of Berkut and then again during the UAS phase. It was called Mobius and the prime was L3. You can google L3 Mobius and you will get pictures. That version was all carbon and optionally manned (it makes it easier to navigate national airspace). It was never armed but we installed a retractable MX15 IOR ball in the belly. Dave and the other partner essentially sold it to L3 and did pretty well. Last I saw Dave had made another Berkut and it was being flown out of Santa Monica doing augmented reality training. It is pretty interesting what they are doing. there was a video article about it not long ago.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
The "others"...I am amazed at the level of "anger and hate"....
Nope, it's called contempt, and it's his own contempt for others that merely gets reflected.

Many years back on Youtube, I offered helpful suggestions, his reply was in the order of: "You try building something yourself, I'm the guy doing it, what have you ever built" theme, can't remember the exact words, but condescending and contemptuous.

Your posts tends to go against what I have seen over the years in this forum, wonderful helpful people, always willing to give up their time, hundreds of thousands of hours of free advice, calculations, parts of aeroplanes, even travel to physically help fellow members out.

It's rare, and takes a special case like Raptor Man to turn the tide here against you.

Ok...start pounding on me...but the truth is...he did something that I...and 99.5 percent of the people who are pounding on him could NOT do...he BUILT AN AIRPLANE...FROM SCRATCH...and HE FLEW IT
If I was at the factory now, I could take a picture of my growing scrap pile, designs and builds that I often end up throwing into the corner scrap pile, and STARTING AGAIN because I KNOW WHEN IT'S CRAP. ... and before I get too deep, and the losses too great.

#### edwisch

##### Well-Known Member
I sure wish some moderator would put this thread out of its misery. The *****, moan, whine and I know better content is way too close to 100%.

#### rv6ejguy

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I sure wish some moderator would put this thread out of its misery. The *****, moan, whine and I know better content is way too close to 100%.
Or, you could just not open the thread next time...Which is what I do when not interested in a thread.

#### RSchneider

##### New Member
I live a short distance from Cherokee Airport (KCNI), and I'm up there almost daily. I take care of a few airplanes for friends of mine and I have an RV-6 that I built, with an Eggenfellner 3.0 liter Subaru, so I'm a little familiar with "out of the box" thinking. I also spent 33 years working for a major airline in their maintenance department. I was present the day that Peter moved the Raptor project to the airport for final assembly and testing. I met Peter, and actually assisted him a number of times working on the reduction drive and trying to sort out shimmy issues with the nose gear. As I was able to give the airplane a good look over, a lot of little things began to stand out as potential problem areas. General construction and systems installation did not seem to be done with weight in mind, nor were acceptable aircraft practices used in a lot of places. It also became apparent that Peter did not readily accept any suggestions that might fix or at least reduce some of the issues. His attitude was one of "I'm good with that". Sometimes he would finally arrive at a solution that was previously suggested, but only after trying his ideas and not getting desired results. I finally decided that it would be best for me to not be involved in any way with the project, and quit going down to his hangar. I don't claim to be an aviation expert by any means, but many others here who are, have tried to offer suggestions and guidance and have been dismissed. I certainly do not want Peter or anyone else to suffer injury or worse, but it gets frustrating to see someone ignore experienced people. I think that may be a part of the "whining and moaning" that is referenced here on occasion..........

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