# 10/23 Raptor Video

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#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
I meant Cessna doesn't experiment with experimental uncertified car engines. They have experimented with certified car derived engines from other engine companies.
True—why would they? My guess is that precisely nobody buying an new Textron product for $400k -$800k (or whatever it is these days) is interested in saving $20k with the option of an auto-derived engine, regardless of the theoretical merits. The guy building a Sonerai or Tailwind airframe for less than$10k has a different outlook.

#### mcrae0104

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
I thought that was uniquely an Australian saying
Just as Australian as Outback Steakhouse.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
True—why would they?
Cessna won't because they only sell complete certified aircraft with certified engines. So they don't have any engine experimental test department like a kit company may have. PM is likely doing an engine endurance test that Cessna could skip.
I don't see why PM would move further with any flight tests until the engine is proven. Since he needs to develop the engine first and the airframe second, it will be a very long process.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
I figured everyone else in the world said the wouldn’t touch it with a 3.048 meter pole, the way everyone complains about imperial.

#### Mark Z

##### Well-Known Member
Well, there is that Titian series that Continental is supplying.

#### flywheel1935

##### Well-Known Member
Here's a thought> I'm sitting sunning myself somewhere really nice on the west coast of America, I've a huge pile of cash in my back pocket, a pina-colada in hand, and a bikini clad friend rubbing suntan lotion on my back, Life is very very good !!!!!!

Then I think to myself, I know, with all this cash proving to be pain to actually carry around !!!!

I'll buy out the Raptor project.

Then I wake up.

#### TarDevil

##### Well-Known Member
I don't see why PM would move further with any flight tests until the engine is proven.
I guess (we all do, I suppose) our question remains - what is he doing to "prove" that engine? He flies Raptor within the necessary limits of that Audi.

We don't know what he's doing, other than flying the same figure 8's.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I guess (we all do, I suppose) our question remains - what is he doing to "prove" that engine? He flies Raptor within the necessary limits of that Audi.

We don't know what he's doing, other than flying the same figure 8's.
What I really want to know is why he is doing what he is doing.

BJC

#### Hot Wings

##### Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
What I really want to know is why he is doing what he is doing.
I'd settle for knowing why I'm doing what I'm doing.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
We don't know what he's doing, other than flying the same figure 8's.
One thing was to test a thicker oil for high temp. Just doing figure eights or any sort of flight test or endurance runs can be fun for a designer after 6 years of building.

#### BoKu

##### Pundit
HBA Supporter
...PM is likely doing an engine endurance test that Cessna could skip.
I don't see why PM would move further with any flight tests until the engine is proven. Since he needs to develop the engine first and the airframe second, it will be a very long process.
I don't know what PM is doing, but I'm not sure I would characterize it as a "test." All he's doing is demonstrating that if he babies it very carefully and stays near the center of the envelope, he can drone around in gentle figure-8s for hours on end. Which is rather a bit less than he has claimed this airplane capable of.

What he's not doing is exploring the airplane's limits, and where necessary doing the hard work of expanding them outward to produce a functional airplane that meets its performance goals. Normally, that's the meat of an aircraft test program, and it's what produces functional, usable airplanes that work in the real world and not just in Solidworks.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
What he is doing is called survival.

For him to leave the game and not be trapped for the rest of his life, he has to cross a threshold. Earlier there was a thought of winning, but now it’s just survival. Whatever his original finish line was going to get him financially, has probably been reversed and if he doesn’t cross the line, he will owe instead of collect.

Right now net zero is probably a happy day. If he stresses the aircraft to where it can’t fly, he looses. The airplane is just a meme. We care about airplanes so we are focused on the diversion. The game is money, and instead of making some if he doesn’t finish, he looses all. For a 30 year old, no biggie; for someone retired or about to, it is everything. He is playing egg toss with a cracked egg.

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Yeah, in all likelihood... that about sums it up.

#### Wanttaja

##### Well-Known Member
OK, as long as we're rampantly speculating, how about this: His flights recently aren't about flying it to the west coast. Not directly, at least.

Maybe he's bringing it to Oshkosh.

In the past week and a half, he's flown the airplane over eight hours. The last three flights (over six hours total) were done on consecutive days. This says that no problems arose that took a significant amount of work to correct.

Eight flight hours at 125 MPH is 1,000 miles.... the distance between Valdosta and Oshkosh. I'm sure he could find intermediate stops at two hour spacing he he wanted.

With all the online froorah over the Raptor, you can believe he'd be absolutely swamped if he showed up at Oshkosh. Huge amount of publicity, of the "Naysayers said it couldn't be done" variety.

And AFTER Oshkosh... he could quietly put it on a truck and ship it to the west coast.

Ron Wanttaja

#### Rataplan

##### Well-Known Member
Cessna won't because they only sell complete certified aircraft with certified engines. So they don't have any engine experimental test department like a kit company may have. PM is likely doing an engine endurance test that Cessna could skip.
I don't see why PM would move further with any flight tests until the engine is proven. Since he needs to develop the engine first and the airframe second, it will be a very long process.
I think no one can sees his logic .

#### Rataplan

##### Well-Known Member
OK, as long as we're rampantly speculating, how about this: His flights recently aren't about flying it to the west coast. Not directly, at least.

Maybe he's bringing it to Oshkosh.

In the past week and a half, he's flown the airplane over eight hours. The last three flights (over six hours total) were done on consecutive days. This says that no problems arose that took a significant amount of work to correct.

Eight flight hours at 125 MPH is 1,000 miles.... the distance between Valdosta and Oshkosh. I'm sure he could find intermediate stops at two hour spacing he he wanted.

With all the online froorah over the Raptor, you can believe he'd be absolutely swamped if he showed up at Oshkosh. Huge amount of publicity, of the "Naysayers said it couldn't be done" variety.

And AFTER Oshkosh... he could quietly put it on a truck and ship it to the west coast.

Ron Wanttaja
He has to refuel , he cant fill him up. too heavy...

#### Vigilant1

##### Well-Known Member
Maybe he's bringing it to Oshkosh.
He'd better leave soon, the days ain't getting any cooler.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
What he's not doing is exploring the airplane's limits, and where necessary doing the hard work of expanding them outward to produce a functional airplane that meets its performance goals. Normally, that's the meat of an aircraft test program, and it's what produces functional, usable airplanes that work in the real world and not just in Solidworks.
Why explore the limits on an airframe that will never be duplicated? Raptor number two should be some 500 pounds lighter. That means the ailerons should be modified and made lighter and the wings and everything else. So why do stall tests or flutter tests or anything on an airframe that must be changed? He said things will be changed. Some of us thought it was pointless to even fly this airframe at all. No need to fully test this one that will never enter functional service. We don't really understand what is going on, all we can do is watch.

#### proppastie

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
What I really want to know is why he is doing what he is doing.

BJC
why?