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Thread: Dual in a GT500

  1. #16
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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    GT500's are pretty rare around our neck of the woods wanttobuild....
    It's a shame that Mark Smith,up in Mt.Vernon In., passed away.
    He was THE ABSOLUTE MAN when it came to Quicksilvers.
    Look online and see if Trikite Sails is still open or even Smittys Fiberglass....Mark's nephew ran the fiberglass business and may still possibly have Mark's GT500.
    Another option is to find a T-Bird II in the area and fly the left seat.....it will give you experience with the yoke controls and the right handed throttle arrangement of the GT400.
    I sold mine a few years ago so I can't help you out with flight hours,unfortunately.
    When you fly your GT400.......BE PREPARED TO LEARN THE REASON THE PLANE HAS A RUDDER.
    It is very rudder dependant....

    And Aesquire is correct....if you slip the GT400 or GT500 with the doors off...loose items tend to go through the prop.
    Mark would slip the GT500 so steep that he had me repenting for all of my previous indiscretions in life,and he would be smiling like a kid on Christmas the whole time he was doing it.
    He never did buy me a new hat to replace the one that the prop chewed up.....lol

    Kevin
    Last edited by MadProfessor8138; March 14th, 2019 at 10:55 PM.

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    Moderator Dana's Avatar
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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Mark may be gone, but Tri-State Kites is still alive and well.

    My buddy's GT400 had no doors, nothing but a tiny nose pod around the pilot's feet to hold the windscreen.

    I always thought that if I owned a GT I'd ditch the yoke and put in a jointed stick like Spitfires had.
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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    What makes the GT400 so rudder dominate?
    I prefer would prefer to lead with Ailerons and follow with the rudder while watching the string or ball.

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Quote Originally Posted by wanttobuild View Post
    What makes the GT400 so rudder dominate?
    High dihedral? Plenty of adverse yaw? The tradition of it's ancestors?

    As to lead with ailerons, that's more or less the technique I was taught on a Citabria back in the Iron Age. Others with more experience and training, especially in teaching, may differ.

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Ailerons, aileron rigging, dihedral, fuselage and or fin vertical area. All can be or be part of the problem.

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Dana.....I'm not quite sure what the "official" description is for the GT flight control....not quite a yoke but not quite a jointed stick either.
    I just refer to it as a yoke because most G.A. people can relate to that description when I explained my T-bird II controls to them.

    Anyone know the technical term for this stick configuration?
    GT400 ......
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Kevin

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Since it is the same, except for scale and an "S" shape, to a B-17 or B-29 yoke, I suppose "yoke" is as correct as anything. It's not a Spitfire jointed stick. ( designed to solve much the same problem of limited cockpit width )

    There may be a more precise technical term but it's a "wheel on a stick" aka yoke, to me. The slow blog agrees with me. ( not an authoritative source, it's a collective effort, and subject to abuse, propaganda, tampering, and political erasure of embarrassing truths. Still, it's available and....) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airc...control_system

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    It doesn't matter if the wheel is round. Or if it is on a stick going down to under the floor, or forward into the panel. Yoke. Among the earliest flight control configurations.

    Arguably the Spitfire split stick, with a hinge to allow side to side motion of the top section, while the entire stick moves fire and aft, is also a yoke. Not because of the Brit loop stick handle, but the hinged movement.

    There are other ways..... The Wright 1903 glider and earliest powered planes used 2 separate sticks, both hinged fore and aft, for pitch ( canard, full flying ) and yaw ( rudder ) along with a hip slider/saddle/yoke for roll ( wing warping ). In this case yoke is used in the animal & human power sense. Like an Ox yoke, to transmit muscle movement to work.

    Be glad that didn't become the common system. Too many jokes.

    My comment above, "The tradition of it's ancestors?" while tongue in cheek, is also Truth. The original glider was 2 axis, weight shift for pitch and seat/yoke for rudder. So was the original powered ultralight. Then came spoilers and conventional stick 3 axis control with elevators & rudder pedals. ( also wheels, and a new cockpit, fuselage & empennage design ) Then ailerons replaced spoilers.

    The GT400 & GT500 were complete redesigns, but the basics of "ultralight construction" was by then established . Ladder style wing structure with tubular spars, cloth covering, etc.

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Wanttobuild....you asked why the GT400 & GT500 are so rudder dependant and I will try to explain.
    When I flew Mark's GT500 it took me a while to get use to dancing on the pedals.
    I asked Mark why the nose would constantly hunt ...I figured it was due to the vertical stab and rudder not having enough area.
    His explanation to me was that due to the location of the prop 1/3 to 1/2 of the stab & rudder were being hit by the prop wash.
    He said the prop wash had a tendency to slap the stab & rudder back and forth....back and forth...back and forth....so the nose hunts because of this.
    The explanation sounded logical.

    Fast forward about a year.....
    I built a Challenger I clipped wing and moved my engine on top of the root tube like Mark did his Quicksilvers.
    This allowed me to get rid of the expensive and troublesome belt drive and run the Rotax gearbox while swinging a bigger prop.
    I loved that plane...especially when I put the 582 on it and could literally point it vertical and accelerate...it was a rocket.
    One thing that bothered me was that the Challengers have a tendency for the nose to hunt also.
    A little internet research and a conversation with Mark solved the problem.
    The Challengers suffer the same issue as the GT's...prop wash buffeting the vertical stab and rudder making the nose hunt.
    The fix was to add dorsal fins to the ends of the horizontal stab.
    It gave the vertical tail more surface area and moved the fins out of the prop wash into clean air.
    The plane tracked like it was on rails after the modification...it was a very nice flying plane.

    Some will agree with this explanation...some may not.

    The GT's and other designs don't have just a too small vertical stab area issue...they also have a prop wash issue.

    Kevin

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Quote Originally Posted by MadProfessor8138 View Post
    GT500's are pretty rare around our neck of the woods wanttobuild....
    It's a shame that Mark Smith,up in Mt.Vernon In., passed away.
    He was THE ABSOLUTE MAN when it came to Quicksilvers.

    Kevin
    Sorry to hear about Mark passing. I last spoke to him several years ago. My first UL was a QS MX and Mark educated me on everything I needed to know about them. I flew to one of Mark's fly-ins in the late 90s and had a ball flying his float plane out of the ditch, chasing each other low level along the river and basically just being a "big kid". He was one of a kind!

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Mark really was a unique person and it was a sad day for ultralighters,friends and family when he passed.
    He had this sort of gruff exterior while trying to run a business but on the inside he was really just a big kid and loved everything about the Quicksilvers.
    Some of my best memories in life are because of him helping me build a great ship and then I flew the hell out of that MXL.
    You might want to be careful posting that we would run the river,hop fence and treelines,chase the cows...etc.
    There's a few Big Name Trolls on the Forum that will be all over you explaining why you're an idiot,should never be allowed to fly anything,you're dangerous and how dare you have fun ....LMAO
    Sorry,just read a post where a frequent poster got all over someone for doing the things that we do and it kind of irked me........
    Anyways....back to the original post.....wantobuild,are you still reading your thread ?

    Kevin

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  13. #27
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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Quote Originally Posted by MadProfessor8138 View Post
    You might want to be careful posting that we would run the river,hop fence and treelines,chase the cows...etc.
    There's a few Big Name Trolls on the Forum that will be all over you explaining why you're an idiot,should never be allowed to fly anything,you're dangerous and how dare you have fun ....LMAO
    Sorry,just read a post where a frequent poster got all over someone for doing the things that we do and it kind of irked me........

    Kevin
    I guess their head would really explode if I mention the times I flew my CGS Hawk under some of the local bridges!

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    I am back!
    I am seriously distracted by 2018 BMW G 310 GS. Single cylinder --- 71MPG---, no typo! Needing something to ride back and forth to the Freightliner. IT WAKES UP @ 7000RPM! LOL I'm gonna get a ticket, I can assure you.

    I have read through the thread, and want to thank you guys for schooling this Freon Hauler!
    I will get back to you guys tonite, the bmw likes 9000, or 86mph!

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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    Quote Originally Posted by radfordc View Post
    I guess their head would really explode if I mention the times I flew my CGS Hawk under some of the local bridges!
    Part 103 says you can't fly over any congested areas. It doesn't say you can't fly under a congested area

    Would have loved to make it to one of the Posey Patch fly-ins.
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    Re: Dual in a GT500

    I've flown under many bridges,landed on roads and taxied into the parking lot to go into a store,landed in fields to talk with people,landed in parking lots to eat at a restaurant......etc.
    Many years ago.....myself and several of the guys around here were asked to attend parades,car dealership grand openings,festivals,etc....the police would block the road off long enough for us to get in and then later to get out.
    They liked having us around...we attracted crowds.
    Not sure why particular people on this Forum have issues with that.....because every time I've landed somewhere,I get people coming out to say hi and talk about flying.
    It seems the people that cause the issues are the people that are involved in aviation.
    Kinda self-destructive in my opinion.....

    Sorry.....that was off topic...

    Kevin

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