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Thread: Brutality Today

  1. #241
    Registered User blane.c's Avatar
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    Re: Brutality Today

    They make midspan clips for plywood roofing, just little short H clips.

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    Re: Brutality Today

    Quote Originally Posted by choppergirl View Post
    Well, Tex Johnson said it's 1g maneuver, and the VJ can do 2g's. All you are doing is rolling around the fuselage/axis... theoretically.... like an arrow or bullet rotates around its axis in flight.
    Not all rolls are equal;

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Re: Brutality Today

    Quote Originally Posted by blane.c View Post
    Sharpening drill bits say around 1/4" and larger is not to difficult.
    lol, it started off as 1/8" or larger then got to be 1/4" and larger then moved up to 3/8" and larger. Then I got some seeing aids for my eyes and started over sharpening all my #41 drills that had collected in the dull pile. I can still grind some pretty small drills with a magnifying glass.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Wings View Post
    Sharpening drill bits seems to be an art that is becoming more and more rare.
    I think I could teach anyone how to grind a drill. In another life as a machinist I sharpened dozens every day. It gets pretty easy after a while.

  5. #244
    Registered User BBerson's Avatar
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    Re: Brutality Today

    Try not to pull 3g (and the wings off) after the roll attempt accidentally ends up in a vertical dive.

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    Moderator Dana's Avatar
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    Re: Brutality Today

    Blane beat me to it suggesting the roofing clips. They're dirt cheap too.

    Better look at the current before choosing phone wire. Better to use standard trailer light wire from the auto parts, it's a 4 conductor ribbon wire with industry standard colors for each circuit.

    I attempted an a barrel roll in my T-Craft... once. Way too slow a roll rate. But it did nice snap rolls, which probably wasn't very smart in a [then] 40 year old aircraft. Be even less smart in a [now] 40 year old ultralight.
    Hatz CB-1 Biplane
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  7. #246
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    Re: Brutality Today

    Quote Originally Posted by choppergirl View Post
    Well, Tex Johnson said it's 1g maneuver, and the VJ can do 2g's. All you are doing is rolling around the fuselage/axis... theoretically.... like an arrow or bullet rotates around its axis in flight.

    snip
    Any maneuver that's only 1 g isn't counting the pull up you'll need before and/or after. As soon as your 1g isn't directly opposing gravity, your aircraft will start accelerating downwards. I suppose, hypothetically, that you could do an axial roll that was 1g. However, you'd need to be going so fast that you could get 1g of lift out of the fuselage. I don't think even the 707 could do that. I suspect the maneuver might have been 1.2 or 1.4 gee or something. Still very conservative.

    Anyway, it looks to me like Johnson was doing something like a barrel roll, which could be done while keeping acceleration very moderate, and that acceleration would be more or less in the normal direction. (That's how Bob Hoover managed to pour tea while rolling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9pvG_ZSnCc Note that you can see he pulls up at the beginning and is a bit nose down at the end.)

    If Mr. Johnson was going 500 mph when he rolled, and you're going to be doing 50 in your attempt, he had enough kinetic energy to climb maybe 100 times as much as you would, and he'd have 10 times as long to do it as you would. I doubt if you'd be able to roll 10 times as fast as the 707. Maybe if you had something with 1/10 the wing span, going just as fast... BIG ailerons would help. These numbers are obviously only approximate.

    ----------
    On the wiring, if the lights are LED, they might not need much current. Some LED's might only need 3 or 4 volts. The wiring could be used as a resistor to regulate the current, though perhaps another resistor or some kind of regulator might also be needed. I don't know how many lumens a trailer light needs to put out, but an LED that uses only a fraction of a watt can be plenty bright, and all of that brightness can be red, amber, or some other useful color, with no filter to waste energy. Typically, though, the LED's I've seen that are meant to put in standard automotive sockets have some kind of regulation built in. They must have some minimum voltage drop, and I have no idea what the minumum is (except I'd bet it's less than 8 volts). Might be worth testing if you want to use standard sockets. Maybe the minimum drop is only 2 or 3 volts.

  8. #247
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    Re: Brutality Today

    P.S. I doubt the VJ 24 can only handle 2 g's, though that might be a wise operating restriction. I suspect that 2 gees is a figure that might actually be seen in level flight if flying into a gust.

  9. #248
    Registered User choppergirl's Avatar
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    Re: Brutality Today



    Rounded edges on Grinder and homogonized the wedge washers, got them down to bear metal in phosophric acid, and put some brown rusty metal primer on them.



    All the holes drilled in the trailer frame for the 2x4's. I can drill 30 holes of the same diameter in the same metal of the same size on the drill press in 30 minutes. I knocked out the wedge washer holes in that time or less. 80w gear oil, no bit sharpening required, just used the drill press lever to keep it making little metal snakes.

    On the other hand, it took me 3 days to do the same number of holes with hand drills on the frame with electric hand drills mimicking the same speed as the drill press or slower. All my body weight, going as slow as I could to keep the bit biting, sharpening bit every so often when it stopped cutting any more, using 80w gear oil (which helped sometimes, hurt sometimes by just making the bit slide on top). Drilled out center pilot hole too on them all. Its rough on your shoulders and I pretty much collapsed for a while after each hole or took a break.

    Now to hodge podge (weld) up a front end out of old rusty bed frames L channel to keep the front end from twisting should I step on a front corner when it's finished.

    My theory that I'm going to run with, is that if I use a really beefy (beefier) piece of L channel right behind the winch pole and make that point super stiff, it will be the center crossbar pivot point of an "H" and keep those corners and the front end from twisting on all the corners of the H are fastened and the 2x4's in and floor on top.


    ~

    The phone wire / network cable I have looks way superior to the wiring in the lighting kit I got from HF which I used the first time around (that wire is junk!). You try to strip that wire ANY WAY you want and the wire inside tears off with the junky coating outside (there's like maybe 3 or 4 strands of hair sized wire?). Even with wire stripping pliers, I'd fail.

    The phone wire / network cable, I can just put it between a divide in my teeth and pull and it's stripped... has maybe 12 strands of wire... or something. Red/Green/Yellow/Black and an uncoated Ground, so 5x... plenty.

    ~

    Wish there was some easy way to make the underside of the trailer less aerodynamically draggy.

    ~

    Somewhere Volmer said 3g+/2g- for the VJ-24w. From his flying videos it doesn't look like he was one to try and push any structural envelope at all while quietly gliding about, so I imagine the numbers are... somewhat speculative.
    Last edited by choppergirl; February 14th, 2019 at 10:55 PM.

  10. #249
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    Re: Brutality Today

    If you want the underside cleaner, can't you just cover the bottom with light plywood or fabric? Make sure to leave some drain holes, of course. You could even make fairings for the axles if you wanted. Not sure how much difference that would make, percentagewise.

  11. #250
    Registered User blane.c's Avatar
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    Re: Brutality Today

    Quote Originally Posted by choppergirl View Post


    Rounded edges on Grinder and homogonized the wedge washers, got them down to bear metal in phosophric acid, and put some brown rusty metal primer on them.



    All the holes drilled in the trailer frame for the 2x4's. I can drill 30 holes of the same diameter in the same metal of the same size on the drill press in 30 minutes. I knocked out the wedge washer holes in that time or less. 80w gear oil, no bit sharpening required, just used the drill press lever to keep it making little metal snakes.

    On the other hand, it took me 3 days to do the same number of holes with hand drills on the frame with electric hand drills mimicking the same speed as the drill press or slower. All my body weight, going as slow as I could to keep the bit biting, sharpening bit every so often when it stopped cutting any more, using 80w gear oil (which helped sometimes, hurt sometimes by just making the bit slide on top). Drilled out center pilot hole too on them all. Its rough on your shoulders and I pretty much collapsed for a while after each hole or took a break.

    Now to hodge podge (weld) up a front end out of old rusty bed frames L channel to keep the front end from twisting should I step on a front corner when it's finished.

    My theory that I'm going to run with, is that if I use a really beefy (beefier) piece of L channel right behind the winch pole and make that point super stiff, it will be the center crossbar pivot point of an "H" and keep those corners and the front end from twisting on all the corners of the H are fastened and the 2x4's in and floor on top.


    ~

    The phone wire / network cable I have looks way superior to the wiring in the lighting kit I got from HF which I used the first time around (that wire is junk!). You try to strip that wire ANY WAY you want and the wire inside tears off with the junky coating outside (there's like maybe 3 or 4 strands of hair sized wire?). Even with wire stripping pliers, I'd fail.

    The phone wire / network cable, I can just put it between a divide in my teeth and pull and it's stripped... has maybe 12 strands of wire... or something. Red/Green/Yellow/Black and an uncoated Ground, so 5x... plenty.

    ~

    Wish there was some easy way to make the underside of the trailer less aerodynamically draggy.

    ~

    Somewhere Volmer said 3g+/2g- for the VJ-24w. From his flying videos it doesn't look like he was one to try and push any structural envelope at all while quietly gliding about, so I imagine the numbers are... somewhat speculative.
    You ain't very big are you.

  12. #251
    Registered User pictsidhe's Avatar
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    Re: Brutality Today

    Quote Originally Posted by lr27 View Post
    If you want the underside cleaner, can't you just cover the bottom with light plywood or fabric? Make sure to leave some drain holes, of course. You could even make fairings for the axles if you wanted. Not sure how much difference that would make, percentagewise.
    heh, what about coroplast?
    Seriously, hypermilers love it for tasks like that. Just make sure the sun doesn't shine on it, it's made of vampires.

  13. #252
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    Re: Brutality Today

    back to aileron rolls.

    The rollrate of various aircraft is often specified as the helix angle in radians: pb/2V.
    p is roll rate in radians per second,
    b is wingspan
    V is velocity

    USAAF specs for WWII aircraft were 0.07+ for transport and utility planes, 0.09+ for fighters
    Some later models of the Zero and the Fw190 managed around 0.14 at low speed.
    A lot of taper helps the roll rate, as does a torsionally stiff wing and big ailerons. The VJ is going to flunk the first two...

    If we take a total guess of a VJ managing 0.06 (because I'm way to lazy to calculate it for a forum post), at 42mph, we have a roll rate of 0.2 rad/s That'd be 31.5 seconds for a 360 roll. Good luck not falling out the bottom of that!

    With proportionally bigger ailerons than a Fw190 and a fairly torsionally stiff wing, I think my project might manage a pb/2V of 0.018. At 63mph, that'd be a 360 roll in 5 seconds. A lot better than I expected before doing numbers, maybe if I let BJC fly the thing sometime, he could report on it's capabilities?
    I haven't calculated the wing structure to get the required stiffness yet so it may not be feasible. So that figure could well go south, or is it north?

  14. #253
    Registered User blane.c's Avatar
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    Re: Brutality Today

    Realistically the entry speed to roll a VJ is going to snap the wings off, roll the fabric around your body like a cocoon and stuff you into the Earth, if nobody messes with it it'll be self burial.

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    Re: Brutality Today

    Quote Originally Posted by lr27 View Post
    If you want the underside cleaner, can't you just cover the bottom with light plywood or fabric? Make sure to leave some drain holes, of course. You could even make fairings for the axles if you wanted. Not sure how much difference that would make, percentagewise.
    probably zero going down the road, in the wake of the tow vehicle at an average speed of 35 mph.

  16. #255
    Registered User choppergirl's Avatar
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    Re: Brutality Today

    Trying to decide how something pink and purple and white (or something orange/yellow/white) might look parked on top of something black and white and silver.... or should I stick with tasteful two tone footprint gray.



    Miscellaneous parts shopping today... pvc to run tail light wiring through.

    Who hasn't done this kind of lance jousting on a motorcycle? With a full rucksack load of parts and stuff, and carrying pizza and pop home... the pizza went under my sweatshirt, the 24 cans of soda balanced on the backpack of the tank.



    Unfortunately for me, the sun went down before I finished, and it was a very, very cold ride home.

    Conduit clamps to hold it to trailer. White paint as runway lines floor paint, I already scored a gallon of black enamel lying about that was still good.

    Blane.c's plyboard roofing clips:




    I clamped my front end L channel "H" design together with about 8 C-clamps in lieu of bolts and bolt holes, and then jumped up on the corners and it worked great to transfer the twist down the entire rest of the trailer and support my weight on the very corners with nothing breaking. Jumping on a corner on the rear does the same thing to the same degree, so... that's about as good as I am going to get. Screwing the plyboard floor on will probably prevent twisting even more. Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture of my real world stress test, as I was trapped down there by a rainstorm without camera.

    ~

    30 second roll rate sounds like... an eternity. I would chicken out probably at the 10 - 15 second mark. I imagine once the nose starts pointing straight at the ground and the speed starts picking up, the roll rate increases though...

    ~
    Wondering if Jet Ski Beach Trailer tires could be used as bouncy ultralight STOL type tires... on the Poor Girl. I've found one spec that rates them to 250 lbs. Might make you bounce all over the runway on landing and more prone to ground loop maybe.

    ~

    Every day I work on this thing, I question my sanity and did I pick a wrong road to go down. Par for the course for homebuilding an airplane I guess, but... rather unsettling. People around me, I walk through in the big city, are building their financial empires, or having some kind of a life, or slogging off to work every day, and I'm working on a trailer, I'm doing... this :-/ Feels kinda looney bin...

    But, any time people ask me about my motorcycle (is that a Triumph?), I end up talking about my plane projects - motorcycles of the air! One random parking lot guy who asked me about my bike, told me today his grandfather was a ball turret gunner. He kept saying "glass ball" this and that and took me a while to figure out what he meant. Another woman said she wanted to be a pilot, but had glaucoma so she gave it up, and I told her you don't need a pilots license to fly an airplane.

    ~

    You know you've watched wayyyy too many airplane videos on Youtube, when every single ad you get on youtube starts with "You should be working on jets! But you got to get the training... (ostensibly, from this place)!" Hey pilot, fix your own !@#$ engine! I don't want to be your grease monkey.
    Last edited by choppergirl; February 16th, 2019 at 11:54 PM.

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