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Thread: Crashes in the News - Thread

  1. #1936
    Registered User davidb's Avatar
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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    The link I posted above is the preliminary data from a few days ago. It’s the data the FAA didn’t consider actionable. Apparently, yesterday Aireon provided a more complete and accurate account which was obtained through a satellite link and that data is what the FAA considered actionable. AFAIK, that accurate data has not yet been leaked to the public.

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    CNNC Interview with the FAA Acting Director Elwell.

    Yes, space-based ADS-B data. The FAA's original decision (no grounding) was based on preliminary, raw data that was just 3 minutes long. According to Elwell, the decision to ground the 737 MAX fleet was after the new data (from Aireon) was received. The FAA received it yesterday, only Canadian authorities had it faster (Aireon is a Canadian company). Elwell said the decision was his--"though made after full consultation . . . "
    Last edited by Vigilant1; March 14th, 2019 at 02:51 PM.

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    https://9gag.com/gag/aWYv4zd

    Thought I'd get this one in before the crash.

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    Registered User Victor Bravo's Avatar
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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    People here are questioning how they got detailed info from satellites, and whether ADS-B or Mode C is enough data to speculate on what the airplane was doing in real-time.

    In the wake of the still-unsolved 777 disappearance, and the 9-11 hijackings, does anyone really think that ALL of detailed data from the flight recorders and every other sensor and temperature and sound and manual/digital input on the airplane is not being data-streamed up out of the aircraft 30 times every second?
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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Bravo View Post
    People here are questioning how they got detailed info from satellites, and whether ADS-B or Mode C is enough data to speculate on what the airplane was doing in real-time.

    In the wake of the still-unsolved 777 disappearance, and the 9-11 hijackings, does anyone really think that ALL of detailed data from the flight recorders and every other sensor and temperature and sound and manual/digital input on the airplane is not being data-streamed up out of the aircraft 30 times every second?
    I have full access to all the design data on the aircraft we make. That information isn’t being broadcast. If it was, it would make my job a whole lot easier in certain situations.

    Also, even the most recent FDRs only record at about 8Hz, and quite a number of the individual parameters only update at 1-2Hz. And that’s on new designs certified in the last year.
    I reserve the right to be smarter tomorrow than I was yesterday.

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Bravo View Post
    In the wake of the still-unsolved 777 disappearance, and the 9-11 hijackings, does anyone really think that ALL of detailed data from the flight recorders and every other sensor and temperature and sound and manual/digital input on the airplane is not being data-streamed up out of the aircraft 30 times every second?
    I think it's not. There's no mechanism in place for that to happen. As far as I know, that's not even in the "maybe in the next 20 yrs" forecast

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Bravo View Post
    People here are questioning how they got detailed info from satellites, and whether ADS-B or Mode C is enough data to speculate on what the airplane was doing in real-time.

    In the wake of the still-unsolved 777 disappearance, and the 9-11 hijackings, does anyone really think that ALL of detailed data from the flight recorders and every other sensor and temperature and sound and manual/digital input on the airplane is not being data-streamed up out of the aircraft 30 times every second?
    Yeah, I really think they're not. Because they're not. It's a dream, but not a reality yet.
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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    I think AirFrance base was getting some telemetry for maintenance on that Airbus that crashed in the Atlantic.

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BBerson View Post
    I think AirFrance base was getting some telemetry for maintenance on that Airbus that crashed in the Atlantic.
    Our aircraft can transmit a snapshot of data through the aircraft's ACARS but it's on VHF and limited to line-of-sight. I think maybe that can use satellite as well. Also very limited on how much data can be in one data pak (burst) transmitted by ACARS so not sure how they decide what to monitor. The joke is they are making sure we don't have the thrust firewalled, which is silly because we only do that on the last leg.

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    I heard this morning the trim jack screw was found in the nose down position.

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    I heard that the trim system is easily disconnected. I also heard that the manual trim wheel can easily be stopped simply by the co-pilot’s grabbing it or the pilot’s grabbing the co-pilot’s leg and pulling it against the wheel.


    BJC

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BBerson View Post
    I heard this morning the trim jack screw was found in the nose down position.
    Yes, this is apparently the bit of material from the crash site that the FAA was referring to yesterday. It is consistent with H-stab/trim/MCAS issues that are believed responsible for the Lion Air crash. IMO, it doesn't mean the planes are unsafe to fly, and I'd board one today operated by a US carrier without any hesitation (after all, the situation and fixes are, as far as we know, identical with what we knew after the Lion Air crash. The planes can still be flown safely if the crew takes appropriate action). I guess the thinking is:
    1) They'll be safer after Boeing makes a software fix (reportedly input from multiple AoA sources plus other changes)
    2) Authorities knew about the issue in the aftermath of the Lon Air crash, bulletins were issued, crews made aware of the existence of the MCAS, and apparently it's not sufficient as evidenced by this crash.

    Bad news for Boeing.
    As buggy/finicky as airliners used to be, I guess we just couldn't fly those planes today. Fuel management of the DC-8, etc. Lots of emphasis on crew training and discipline. And they did have another person on the flight deck. And everybody in the front knew how the plane worked. Well there's no doubt that it is safer to fly now than it used to be.
    Last edited by Vigilant1; March 15th, 2019 at 03:28 PM.

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  18. #1948
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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
    Looks like 8600 feet from where the data ended. Accelerating all the way from takeoff to 383 knots, only climbing 1000 feet in 3 minutes. Very unusual. I see the time stamp and it would seem that this was around 0840 local time so I assume it was light at the time? With a 250 knot speed limit so close to the airport, hmmm, I can only think they had erroneous ASI and altitude being displayed. Why else would they be climbing so slowly and going so fast?

    Does anyone know if they were in IMC?
    Is 250 knots also the rule in he country where this happened?

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    I thought airliners could avoid the 250 knot rule in certain places to keep traffic flow up in the big airports.

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    Re: Crashes in the News - Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilant1 View Post
    Yes, this is apparently the bit of material from the crash site that the FAA was referring to yesterday. It is consistent with H-stab/trim/MCAS issues that are believed responsible for the Lion Air crash. IMO, it doesn't mean the planes are unsafe to fly, and I'd board one today operated by a US carrier without any hesitation (after all, the situation and fixes are, as far as we know, identical with what we knew after the Lion Air crash. The planes can still be flown safely if the crew takes appropriate action). I guess the thinking is:
    1) They'll be safer after Boeing makes a software fix (reportedly input from multiple AoA sources plus other changes)
    2) Authorities knew about the issue in the aftermath of the Lon Air crash, bulletins were issued, crews made aware of the existence of the MCAS, and apparently it's not sufficient as evidenced by this crash.

    Bad news for Boeing.
    As buggy/finicky as airliners used to be, I guess we just couldn't fly those planes today. Fuel management of the DC-8, etc. Lots of emphasis on crew training and discipline. And they did have another person on the flight deck. And everybody in the front knew how the plane worked. Well there's no doubt that it is safer to fly now than it used to be.
    The airline said the pilots received the recent training. (maybe Boeing should double check these pilots, as I said after the previous Max crash) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.f464996647bc

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