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  1. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    No. That is a rhetoric question. Google rhetoric or logic. Your asumption "All loses are heat" has a serious problem with Harleys having a less than 19% efficient internal combustion engines. A Fat Boy has around 50kW of power. If your asumptions were correct, there would be around 200kW of...
  2. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    I am wrong and I do not understand basic laws of physics because I do not believe that drivetrain losses from crankshaft to rear wheel could be less than 1%? That's a good one. Hilarious. So finally, you admit my claim that not all losses are heat. That's progress. Now see all the links I...
  3. DangerZone

    Thinking Outside the Box...

    There was a guy in France who built an RC model in the late 1980s, and the airplane had the same issues of complicated transition to flight that the original full size had. It looked beuatiful, the design was pretty nice.
  4. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    You are absolutely right, and I am still waiting for you and everyone else here to provide a proper name for "the thing which is not a differential". Ok, sorry for the grammar. Did you understand the problem of the axle torque and wish to provide an engineering solution for swingarm deflection...
  5. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    You are absolutely right about what you wrote. However, you are completely disregarding that the shaft driven motorcycles need to differentiate torque applied to two axles: one on the wheel and the other on the swingarm. Also, toque and power are the good sides of the deal, but torsional...
  6. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    Thanks, just checked it out. It's interesting, it just says for the hypoid gears that the teeth are 1.5 to 2 times stronger (page 2192, 30th edition) without the approxiamte efficiency loss. The hypoid gears are usually stronger and quiter, but at the cost of losing more efficiency than sprial...
  7. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    Arguing? I thought we were discussing. :D If some people would stop to think about this actually, everybody could be learning from each other. And flying on homebuilt shaft and chain driven planes in the future. :pilot:
  8. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    A longitudinal engine crankshaft will have one U-joint, a transverse engine crankshaft bike will have two U joints. The drivetrain systems with a single U joint fail much more often due to neglected torsional, inertial and driveline vibrations. Most well designed bike shaft drive systems usually...
  9. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    Didi you see this? https://img.memecdn.com/What-do-you-call-someone-with-no-body-and-a-nose_o_139852.webp That's your answer, nobody knows? So, nobody knows what a motorcycle shaft drive differential is called here, but they are telling me I could call it four diferent names: 1. A final...
  10. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    It's unclear what you are trying to do with so many wrong asumptions. Some motorcycle drive shafts are more efficient than others, it does not always have to be a strict 20% efficiency loss. It also varies depending on speed and gear. Then, an engine temperature close to 200 degrees centigrade...
  11. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    A very little bit. However, there are a lot of such small losses of each component in a motorcycle shaft drive which influence one another in series. Heat dissipates. Slipping can have more or less fricition. However, physics and math work every time and it seems we both agree on that. I posted...
  12. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    :D Are you joking? :D Are you kidding me? :D So, if you want to buy this part you go to a store and ask for "a thing that doesn't do anything like a differential"? :D Guys, it's a simple question and it would be nice to know what all of you here on this forum call it. The first seller is...
  13. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    Ok, I could accept this is a language thing, but then again: Nobody answered? Nobody here knows what you call the motorcycle shaft drive differential? If it breaks and you need to buy one, do you ask for "the thing that is not a differential, but looks and performs as one in some motorcycle...
  14. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    Actually, you helped a lot, your answers are appreciated. You showed me how you evaluate losses, and how you add them up instead of multiplying them since they are all part of an interconnected drivetrain system. Now I understand why there is so much difference between your calculation and how...
  15. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    We had similar experience when changing sprockets on 1000cc bikes, specially when changing front sprockets to a smaller tooth count for better acceleration and handling. Even though some would expect higher revs and better runs, the efficiency went down in higher gears. The manufacturers had...
  16. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    Ok, I see. So, you basically calculated only the rear bevel gear losses without the losses from bearings, the swingarm deflection under load, the differential, the dampener, the rubber boots, the oil/grease, the small shaft clutch, the two U joints which are also part of the shaft drive? This...
  17. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    Excellent, feel free to educate me, how do you verify your power loss or power gain measurements? How do you call a motorcycle shaft drive differential? Or you don't call it anything because you know nothing about it?
  18. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    Wrong. I wrote: This means a motorcycle engine with a final chain drive could have 12% efficiency loss (as an example 10% internals and 2% chain) while this same bike with a shaft drive could have 30% efficiency losses (as in 10% internally and 20% in the shaft drive). One influences the...
  19. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    Please read the link to how efficiency is calculated. Every component is calculated separately, and then the whole system is calculated by adding all those losses together. At least that's the way it has been done in EUrope for the last 40 or so years. I am now curious about how it is done in...
  20. DangerZone

    Drivetrain Power Loss

    No differentials? Ok, so what would you call the rear shaft drive differentials that are sold on ebay when a shaft drive differential breaks due to hard abuse? It looks like this: 1997-2001 BMW K1200LT K1200 NON-ABS Rear Wheel Drive Axle Differential Gear Case | eBay 1975 MOTO GUZZI 850 T...
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