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Thread: Messerschmitt Bf-109

  1. #1
    Registered User SVSUSteve's Avatar
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    Messerschmitt Bf-109

    Does anyone know where I can find the plans for a Bf 109E-7? One of my ancestors flew them with Group II./JG 77 during WWII so it is one of my favorite planes. If I ever do build something, chances are that this will be my choice. I am not looking for a set of scaled replica plans, but rather the full scale variety. I don't care if they are the original plans (since I can read German) or modern day reproductions.

    I would also be interested in the Bf 110, as my ancestor also flew these.
    Last edited by SVSUSteve; August 21st, 2007 at 11:30 PM.

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    Registered User Russell Myles's Avatar
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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    have a look here and follow the links...
    BF-109
    and
    Anybody for a Bf 109 ?

    apologies if you've already seen them.

    The UK based magazine "Todays Pilot" did a flight test on the Peak 109 recently, it's not on the website, I'll see if I can dig out a copy if you're interested. It may take a few weeks to get to you though, I'm back to work tomorrow after a year off!

    Send me a PM and I'll arrange something if you want...

    -------------------------

    OOOPS just reread your post about "full scale"
    Macrcel Jurca does 1:1 109 plans I think...seehttp://www.marcel-jurca.com/index.ph...d=26&Itemid=38
    the US contact details are in this thread...(post #5)
    Focke Wulf 190 A/F
    Last edited by Russell Myles; August 22nd, 2007 at 06:46 AM. Reason: adding stuff, taking stuff out...

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    Registered User SpitfireBuilder91's Avatar
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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    There is/was a full-scale '109 replica in the States. So far as I'm aware it's not flown, despite having been under construction/testing for quite a few years now. I'll have a Google for it.



    Here it is - a sorta-G6 (note the tail-struts). The website doesn't say whether it has flown, and I know for certain it had a taxiing accident a couple of years ago, so who knows?

    If you want my own personal opinion, I would definitely go for the Peak Aerospace Me109 ultralight. For starters, it looks more like a Bf-109E, would require very little to turn it into a convincing E-7 lookalike, and would look fantastic in an authentic scheme. Built with the shorter wingspan and more powerful engine (as the "experimental version), it would really perform well. Plus, it'd be a helluva lot cheaper/easier to buy/build than a full-scale '109!
    Last edited by SpitfireBuilder91; September 17th, 2007 at 04:20 PM.
    Cheers

    Daren

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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    Hi Steve,

    I started adapting plans for a full size Bf109 B or C. Not sure yet.
    The reason I go for those early versions is to show realism in flight. If you were to build a Gustav and power it with 300HP, you're going to have something that looks like a Ferrari with a top speed of 50mph.
    I bought the CAD drawings on eBay, seller in NZ, and rework them with lighter material. E.g. the original 0.8mm skin (.032) is reduced to 0.6mm
    and if all goed well and the guy from NZ keeps on releasing more, I hope to have a preliminary set available to start negotiating with the authorities involved.
    I have no idea about your budget for this (it is non of my business for sure) and would therefor suggest you get a look at the CAD to give yourself an impression on what you are about to start.
    In the past I've build 5 homebuild aircraft and consider this project "difficult".
    If you like the light stuff, the German UL is indeed the best option for the time being.
    I can post some screenshots if you'd like.

    Regards,

    Emil

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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    here it is anyway...

    If you want more info on this... my pleasure

    Emil
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Messerschmitt Bf-109-109-r-rumpfteilen-2-bis-8-panels-assembly.jpg  

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    Registered User PTAirco's Avatar
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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    The 109, up to the E-version, has to be one of my favorite aircraft ever. A case of form and function coming together beautifully.

    It looks like the above mentioned version use the original type of rear fuselage construction of half a dozen or so seperate flanged 'rings' fitted to each other. These need compund curves, do they not? I assume an English wheel is a necessity. I always wondered how they did it at the factory - giant presses for each section or just a bunch of skilled panel beaters?
    "Aeronautical engineering is highly educated guessing, worked out to five decimal places. Fred Lindsley, Airspeed."

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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    There are two types of shell parts that form the aft fuselage. One with integrated bulkheads so to speak, and one simply cut out of aluminum sheet. The formed rings are light green on the picture, the sheet cut parts are dark.
    The first type of shell is formed around forming molds that are pressed into soft sheet. Later heat treated to get it hard again.
    If I can believe Peter Ewbank at eBay, this subject of cold forming will be documented in one of the next updates.
    And yes, I want to stick to the original construction as much as possible. the english wheel will be needed for cowlings etc...

    Emil

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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    Got them too.
    Going to try 3D modelling the tailfin and rudder. This airfoil shaped tailfin and rudder assembly looks weird I must say. Not sure how to start on this.
    Is it your intention to build something too Bigmac?
    Emil

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    Registered User PTAirco's Avatar
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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    Quote Originally Posted by BigMac View Post
    Yes, am intending to do the fuselage first though, so a crash course on forming coming up. I've seen several photos of sheet forming using car and truck jacks instead of sophisticated hydraulics - it doesn't seem difficult at all. The basic principal can be applied to everything from wing ribs to leading edges etc. I think the only real trick is anealing the result.

    A few months ago there was an auction on the net (winter's) comes to mind. Anyway, part of the auction contained rib forming blocks. They were made of wood. That's when it struck me that the forming blocks were all wood. So the biggest part of metal construction was getting all the wooden forms together over which the sheet metal could be formed.
    .

    You will need an English wheel, though. Jacks and form blocks won't get you those compound curves. Harbor Freight Tools now sell some low priced ones, I noticed.
    "Aeronautical engineering is highly educated guessing, worked out to five decimal places. Fred Lindsley, Airspeed."

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    Registered User PTAirco's Avatar
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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    Quote Originally Posted by BigMac View Post
    Have you got a link to that? I'd like to see.


    Coming up: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95359
    "Aeronautical engineering is highly educated guessing, worked out to five decimal places. Fred Lindsley, Airspeed."

  11. #11
    AVI
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    Re: Messerschmitt Me-109 Rudder Drawings

    Regarding the Me 109 rudder drawings Peter Ewbank sells on Ebay: He advertises 29 sheets of drawings. That would indicate that there are some twenty-odd sheets missing so it might be prudent to heed his understated advice: " only a little additional research required by the buyer."

    I don't have a beef with Peter - he's doing his best to make a buck on Ebay, and that's not really the subject of my post.

    It took a lot of work and some expense, but I've managed to obtain an almost complete set of copies of original WWII Messerschmitt rudder drawings. The set consists of some fifty sheets which represents, I'm told, all the rudder drawings that survived the war.

    It took some head-scratching because the copies were reduced size whereas many of the originals were full size with no indicated measurements, but they have now been inputed to 2D CAD. Additionally, I've drawn them manually to full scale. (no plotter - it's a hobby, after all, so the fun is in the research and drafting) There was also much fun translating the German into English. Thank God for Bablefish.

    The drawings show a trailing edge that appears to be a shaped, hollow extrusion that runs from the top of the light bracket to the top of the balance weight. It's an oval shape in section with the trailing edge a tighter circumference, somewhat like a squashed circular section with the inboard end wider than the trailing edge.

    How was this formed? Is this a readily available extrusion or was it specially made? I must confess that I'm completely new to metal work so any advice whatsoever would really be appreciated!

    I'm not building a whole Me 109 (factory designation, folks, not Bf) - just a rudder. Full size, full scale.
    Iceman

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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    Based on Peter's drawings I managed to get the rudder drawn in 3D for some 80%. Somewhere next month I'm going to take measurements of the real thing (of the missing parts).
    As for manufacturing, the "Randbogen" will be the least of my problems. Casted parts require molds and molds require prototype parts. The "Randbogen" on the other hand, can be made out of round tubing, especially when it's not for a flying replica.
    Feel free to send me a personal message if you want to learn more! Glad to help!

    Emil
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Messerschmitt Bf-109-8-109.313-01h-randbogen-pic2.jpg  

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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    Plans dont seem available from Marcel Jurca, I had to go to plan "B"

    I bought the FW-190 factory drawing from the guy in NZ, they seem pretty complete and I believe I can build a 100% replica, I just need a little more detail on the fwd and aft wing spars !!

  14. #14
    AVI
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    Re:FW-190

    Great choice!
    The FW-190 makes a lot of sense because its construction is almost modulized. The 190 is a natural for composite construction. There's the main fuselage tub, the two piece rear fuselage consisting of left and right halves, and wings built in upper and lower halves. Composites would require less work and less time than duplicating one in metal where each part has to have a wood pattern made in order to produce the metal one.
    The 190's wide track landing gear avoids one of the weak design features of the Me 109. It's also possible that a suitable radial would be easier and much less expensive to obtain than a comparable V-12. If you've got the bucks, (no pun intended) to fund such a project, go for it!
    You might want to obtain the magnificent scale drawings of the FW-190, both short-nose and long-nose, produced by Arthur Bentley. These drawings are absolute works of art and offer much dimensional detail. They would be a good foundation from which to design a composite airframe!
    The drawings are available from Arthur's website, direct from the UK. www.albentley-drawings.com
    Iceman

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    Re: Messerschmitt Bf-109

    In regard to the web site http://www.albentley-drawings.com/german.htm the drawing I have far surpass the ones available on this site, I might have to go to the Smithsonian Institute to get better or should I say a few more drawings.

    But you are right, one of the reasons I want to build the FW is #1 I can afford the engine (the R-1830 and the DC-3 prop are used on the Jurca Plane) #2 the plans are very detailed and the plane is built in sections like you said. When and if I build one (I have to finish my first plane) it will be all metal, I know a few people who have built a vision aircraft (www.visionaircraft.com) and they all have gotten sick from the composites. Sheet metal isnt all that bad !

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