Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 36

Thread: Communication

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    kuttawa, ky
    Posts
    122
    Likes (Given)
    48
    Likes (Received)
    14

    Communication

    Have been wanting to post this little rant, but always forget to. So tonights the night.

    I feel an easy way to really improve Safety in flight is to install strobe lights on all aircraft. I guess this is directed to those pilots that don't want 2 haul around one of those heavy batteries.

    You r doing your fellow pilot a disservice by not making yourself easily seen. You communicate by raido, but, non verbal continuous strobe light communication, would only enhance safety in the ever growing crowded airways.

    Boy do i feel better
    Ben

  2. Likes Aerowerx liked this post
  3. #2
    Registered User Tiger Tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Thunder Bay
    Posts
    1,371
    Likes (Given)
    451
    Likes (Received)
    768

    Re: Communication

    I've never noticed a strobe light before seeing an airplane during the day. Night is a whole other story, though...

  4. Likes BBerson, Matt G. liked this post
  5. #3
    Registered User Toobuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Mojave, Ca
    Posts
    2,944
    Likes (Given)
    243
    Likes (Received)
    1708

    Re: Communication

    Agree with Tim, to a point. strobes are almost worthless in broad daylight, but my LED flashlight landing lights can be seen for miles during the day. Unfortunately they are highly directional.

  6. Likes cheapracer liked this post
  7. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Upper midwest in a house
    Posts
    3,166
    Likes (Given)
    319
    Likes (Received)
    1004

    Re: Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by wanttobuild View Post
    Have been wanting to post this little rant, but always forget to. So tonights the night.

    I feel an easy way to really improve Safety in flight is to install strobe lights on all aircraft. I guess this is directed to those pilots that don't want 2 haul around one of those heavy batteries.

    You r doing your fellow pilot a disservice by not making yourself easily seen. You communicate by raido, but, non verbal continuous strobe light communication, would only enhance safety in the ever growing crowded airways.
    There are several studies showing strobes are not very effective for collision avoidance in the daylight. Since I have no intention of ever flying a homebuilt at night, I won't bother installing or maintaining lights of any kind.

    Radio isn't very high on the list of priorities either. Used to commute to work in my C-120. It was 500 miles one way and I never had a radio.

    Glad I got that off my chest.
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain

    “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$hi+.” ― W.C. Fields

  8. #5
    Registered User BBerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    7,147
    Likes (Given)
    1227
    Likes (Received)
    1060

    Re: Communication

    What is needed is some sort of cheap electronic sunglasses that can "enhance" and highlight the beam of some sort of cheap electronic strobes from the other traffic. Heads up, as they say.

  9. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    kuttawa, ky
    Posts
    122
    Likes (Given)
    48
    Likes (Received)
    14

    Re: Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by Turd Ferguson View Post
    There are several studies showing strobes are not very effective for collision avoidance in the daylight. Since I have no intention of ever flying a homebuilt at night, I won't bother installing or maintaining lights of any kind.

    Why then can i look up in the sky and see strobes? Broad daylight.

    Radio isn't very high on the list of priorities either. Used to commute to work in my C-120. It was 500 miles one way and I never had a radio.

    Glad I got that off my chest.
    There you go, thank you for your contribution to enhancing Safety

  10. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    kuttawa, ky
    Posts
    122
    Likes (Given)
    48
    Likes (Received)
    14

    Re: Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by BBerson View Post
    What is needed is some sort of cheap electronic sunglasses that can "enhance" and highlight the beam of some sort of cheap electronic strobes from the other traffic. Heads up, as they say.

    That is a Very Good Idea.

  11. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    kuttawa, ky
    Posts
    122
    Likes (Given)
    48
    Likes (Received)
    14

    Re: Communication

    Hey Turd
    Can you point to one of those several studies?

  12. #9
    Registered User Daleandee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    374
    Likes (Given)
    62
    Likes (Received)
    263

    Re: Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
    ... my LED flashlight landing lights can be seen for miles during the day. Unfortunately they are highly directional.
    Mine are quite directional too and a little larger than "flashlight" size. I've had some tell me that mine are so bright as to be distracting. I burn them steady for take-offs and generally use the wig-wag feature when in the vicinity of an airport, high traffic areas, and landing/roll-out.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaca3NB5SLs

    Another enhancement was to add a cheap version of ADS-B "in" that displays on my GPS.

    https://www.amazon.com/Vilros-Raspbe.../dp/B01BX1QSFK

    I have and use my radio also along with a tail mounted strobe light.

    But my best tool is a good scan outside. I'm not a perfect pilot but I do want to do all I can to keep from getting tangled up with another aircraft as that would make for a very bad day.

    Dale Williams
    N319WF @ 6J2
    Myunn - "daughter of Cleanex"
    120 HP - 3.0 Corvair
    Tail Wheel - Center Stick
    Signature Finish 2200 Paint Job
    135.7 hours / Status - Flying

  13. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Upper midwest in a house
    Posts
    3,166
    Likes (Given)
    319
    Likes (Received)
    1004

    Re: Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by wanttobuild View Post
    Hey Turd
    Can you point to one of those several studies?
    I have key excerpts from several:

    "FAA studies have concluded that there is no support for the use of strobes in daylight. A
    1989 FAA study of the effectiveness of see-and-avoid concluded that ‘Aircraft colours or lights
    play no significant role in first directing a pilot’s attention to the other aircraft during daytime’
    (Graham 1989)."
    [The above also shoots down the "painting your plane bright colors will make it more visible" theory as false. The reality is a plane of any color beyond a certain distance appears dark in color]

    "In 1958 the USAF Air Training Command conducted flight tests to compare strobe anticollision
    lights with rotating beacons. It was concluded that in daylight conditions, no
    lighting system could be expected to prevent collisions."


    "Further tests in 1958 at the U.S. Air Force’s Wright-Patterson Base again found that strobe
    lights were ineffective in daylight"


    "U.S. Air Force tests in 1976 found extremely poor performance of strobe lights on aircraft.
    In all cases, the aircraft was sighted before the strobe. In addition, it was found that after
    two years service on aircraft, strobe lights were about half as intense as expected."

    "Extensive trials in 1977 by the US Air Force Aeronautical Systems Division used strobes
    fitted on a tower and observers at various distances and viewing angles. The results
    indicated that in daylight, even a strobe of 36000 candelas was not particularly
    conspicuous"


    ATSB 1991:
    2.8.1 Effectiveness of lights
    There have been frequent suggestions that the fitting of white strobe lights to aircraft can help
    prevent collisions in daylight. At various times BAS1 and the NTSB have each recommended the
    fitting of white strobe anticollision lights. Unfortunately, the available evidence does not support the use of lights in daylight conditions

    "Field trials have generally confirmed the ineffectiveness of strobes in daylight"



    Much more data in files on other computers, etc. (not my first rodeo on the topic)

    Usually, when someone suggest strobes make a plane more visible, I ask for their supporting data. Have yet to get other than emotional response.
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain

    “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$hi+.” ― W.C. Fields

  14. Likes Rockiedog2, Matt G. liked this post
  15. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Upper midwest in a house
    Posts
    3,166
    Likes (Given)
    319
    Likes (Received)
    1004

    Re: Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by wanttobuild View Post
    There you go, thank you for your contribution to enhancing Safety
    A large percentage of the pilot population makes a 1 hr of ground and 1hr of flight training every 2 yrs contribution toward enhancing safety. I find that extremely anemic.
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain

    “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$hi+.” ― W.C. Fields

  16. #12
    Registered User BJC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    97FL, Florida, USA
    Posts
    5,078
    Likes (Given)
    2641
    Likes (Received)
    3179

    Re: Communication

    I've found that, in hazy conditions, I see the strobes on tall towers before I see the tower itself.

    I also find landing lights to be helpful in the pattern at busy airports, such as during fly-ins.


    BJC

  17. #13
    Registered User Derswede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    266
    Likes (Given)
    61
    Likes (Received)
    66

    Re: Communication

    Put blue strobes on your bird and I bet you would get noticed....! That would play into the hands of those guys that like playing Cop. "Pull over, you have exceeded VNE for a part 103 airplane....!" I must admit that the white strobes that lots of the police cars now use are quite intense, and as they are LED, are low power as well. Hmmm ....I can see UFO sightings increasing now....

    Derswede

  18. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Upper midwest in a house
    Posts
    3,166
    Likes (Given)
    319
    Likes (Received)
    1004

    Re: Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by BJC View Post
    I've found that, in hazy conditions, I see the strobes on tall towers before I see the tower itself.
    And that is supported by the data - 'under certain conditions of contrasting atmospheric light' -however, we don't have a way to quantify those conditions. That leaves us with the general consensus that "the available evidence does not support the use of lights in daylight conditions"

    Even with research, studies and published data, the FAA promotes and maintains the feel good program "Operation lights-ON" or the aviation version of "Smoke 'em if you got 'em"

    I think it's important to understand the lack of effectiveness of lights in daylight to prevent complacency, i.e., relying on strobes to increase safety as that premise is not supported by the data. Yeah, turn your lights on if you got em but keep all eyeballs looking out the windows.
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain

    “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$hi+.” ― W.C. Fields

  19. #15
    Registered User bmcj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Fresno, California
    Posts
    11,525
    Likes (Given)
    6184
    Likes (Received)
    3886

    Re: Communication

    Quote Originally Posted by BJC View Post
    I've found that, in hazy conditions, I see the strobes on tall towers before I see the tower itself.
    An important consideration when flying a tall tower.

  20. Likes cheapracer liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Why not use cell towers for ATC communication?
    By StarJar in forum Instruments / Avionics / Electrical System
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: March 4th, 2015, 12:43 AM
  2. Helicopter Communication?
    By rrruuunnn in forum General Experimental Aviation Questions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: August 28th, 2008, 07:54 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •