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Thread: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

  1. #151
    Registered User Winginit's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turd Ferguson View Post
    Personally, I enjoy the entertainment aspect. Even the most pedantic forums have occasional entertainment. It usually comes after a consensus has been reached and the thread drags on because some refuse to accept the consensus decision.
    If we all agreed all the time there wouldn't be much to talk about. I don't think most of the people come to this site because they want to be entertained, they come to exchange ideas and information and viewpoints and hopefully learn or teach something in the process. There isn't anything wrong with injecting humor into the site while they are at it. My point is that there are people who seldom post anything of value because they don't have the guts to get critisized, but they sure think they have the right to dismiss the opinions of those that do step up to the plate. Some of you need to recognize the difference between humor and insulting trash talk. If the best comment someone can come up with is derogatory slurs toward other individuals, then it ain't humorous, it doesn't help aviation. I'll ask you one thing, if someone made an insinuation to your wife,mother, son, or daughter that they were stupid, would you find it just as humorous ?The internet provides lots of opportunity for people to make comments that they wouldn't dare to make face to face.


    Here is a quote from an HBA thread, guess who wrote it.
    Ladies and gentlemen:

    This is an open letter to al
    l HBA members.

    Lately the demeanor of the discussions here have significantly degraded, and yes, I have been a part of that unfortunate trend. Where we should be discussing such things as designing, building and flying E-AB aircraft, we are posting totally rediculous claims about airplanes, what could be, what should be, what others should be doing, and how terribly intelligent and important we are.

    Enough.

    Thank you.

    Now back to posting about E-AB issues.
    Last edited by Winginit; January 5th, 2017 at 06:30 PM.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdY9s9kxv14

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    Registered User BoKu's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turd Ferguson View Post
    Personally, I enjoy the entertainment aspect. Even the most pedantic forums have occasional entertainment. It usually comes after a consensus has been reached and the thread drags on because some refuse to accept the consensus decision.
    Extraordinary claim, followed by dearth of extraordinary evidence. Hilarity ensues.
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  4. #153
    Registered User D Hillberg's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Conduction, Radiation, Convection three means to transfer heat, variables are temperature , distance, material, time. Some power plants work fine with out that little thingy while others take a dump in a short time. It's not a cut and dried answer, But I know enough that when you change things from a known design you better be ready to either pay the piper or pay the owner for your little experiment. The last shuttle crashed because of a piece of friggen Sprayfoam blowin a hole in it's structure...never say never.

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  6. #154
    Moderator Dana's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by N8053H View Post
    I said that heat will not dissipate into fast moving water in the cooling system.
    When you can back that up with science, not anecdotes or something your mechanic said, I'll listen. Until then, I'm done trying to explain. I'll refer to my engineering training and heat transfer textbook and my personal experience, all of which say you're wrong; fast moving fluids remove heat more effectively than slow moving fluids (the term is forced convection if you want to learn something).

    Dana

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    Registered User BBerson's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by N8053H View Post
    I did not say fast moving water will not cool. I said that heat will not dissipate into fast moving water in the cooling system. I bet if I told everyone there is no such thing as cold air, everyone would also say I am wrong. But this is another discussion for another thread.

    Tony
    Nope.
    What you said: "If you remove the thermostat and do not put a restriction in place, something with a smaller diameter hole in it, the water will circulate to fast, the heat will not have time to transfer into the water. Its moving to fast. "

    (Post#35)
    I give up also.

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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    When you can back that up with science, not anecdotes or something your mechanic said, I'll listen. Until then, I'm done trying to explain. I'll refer to my engineering training and heat transfer textbook and my personal experience, all of which say you're wrong; fast moving fluids remove heat more effectively than slow moving fluids (the term is forced convection if you want to learn something).

    Dana

    Dana I would go out to the scrap yard and pull engines. I would then rebuild these engines and then sell them. In all the engines I found with the thermostat removed I also found burned valves and other problems. Just as I was taught in school. I miss those days. It was a lot of fun hanging at the junk yard and building engines. One day I saw a man, one man walk out carrying two complete V8 engines, with starter and all still installed. Not one at a time, but two engine at once, by himself. But again this is another story.

    This is not what my mechanic said but my professor in college who just happened to be the head mechanic on a racing team.

  9. #157
    Registered User Dan Thomas's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by N8053H View Post
    Dana I would go out to the scrap yard and pull engines. I would then rebuild these engines and then sell them. In all the engines I found with the thermostat removed I also found burned valves and other problems. Just as I was taught in school.
    The absence of a thermostat doesn't prove that leaving it out caused burned valves. It's entirely possible that the thermostat was removed to try to improve cooling in an old vehicle with a clogged-up radiator, a collapsing bottom rad hose, or some other common factor.

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    Registered User Hot Wings's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    We need a new feature on HBA:

    Add an ignore thread button and an anonymous read at your own risk counter attached to the thread title. Might give us some warning...
    Conventional wisdom and practices yield conventional results. If that is good enough for you:
    Problem solved.

    "--and pompous fools drive me up the wall. Ordinary fools are all right; you can talk to them, and try to help them out."
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    “Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    I am disappointed by some of the people on this site. Surprises me. But it shouldn't, I don't recognize a lot of the American people today. Sad.
    Pops

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    Registered User cheapracer's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by N8053H View Post
    I bet if I told everyone there is no such thing as cold air, everyone would also say I am wrong.
    You are wrong, of course there's cold air.

    The Earth spins on an axis that, well, wobbles, and the differing angles cause a difference in concentration of the sun which in turn causes what we know as the seasons, so we get hot air in the Summer when the sun's concentration is at it's greatest, and we get COLD AIR in Winter when the sun's rays angle cause them to be less dense.

    Or you could be at he Artic or Antartica where the air is really cold.

    Mind you a simpler way would be to stand in front of an air conditioner, but only if the thermostat is working correctly.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoKu View Post
    The vast majority of engineering failures are the results of failure of imagination rather than failure of calculation.

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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    On this thread.... it's just a bunch of hot air.

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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winginit View Post
    ...it doesn't help aviation.
    Misinformation doesn't help aviation.

    Sometimes each of us is wrong. The mark of a wise person is to accept correction and learn, rather than doubling down on his opinion. This is particularly true if the subject matter has been settled since the time of JP Joule and Lord Kelvin.

    Q = m c delta t

    Divide both sides of the equation by time, and you will find that increasing mass flow rate does indeed increase the rate of heat transfer. The equation above is nothing more than a description of the way the universe works. This is not theory; it is observable, measurable, repeatable, proven fact.
    Last edited by mcrae0104; January 6th, 2017 at 03:45 AM.
    ​simplify.

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    Registered User Autodidact's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    The OP appears to claim that had he not given the "water goes to fast to cool" answer on an examination question at school, then he would have flunked the course. This suggests that he had to parrot a myth in order to graduate, and that is very frightening to me. Are there other areas in our society where it is necessary to profess belief in a falsehood in order to advance socially and economically? I ask this question at the risk of the thread getting closed, but how can this question not arise from the OP's formulation of the story?
    Say, did I ever tell you guys my hummus joke?

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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Thomas View Post
    The absence of a thermostat doesn't prove that leaving it out caused burned valves. It's entirely possible that the thermostat was removed to try to improve cooling in an old vehicle with a clogged-up radiator, a collapsing bottom rad hose, or some other common factor.
    Thermostats were not removed for this reason. They were removed because they would stick, either closed or open. But they would stick. Then instead of replacing it gets removed. Again I wonder how I know this. You can tell a cooling system that has been plugged by contamination from one that has been left open. Everything about an engine and how it's been operated is shown once you have all the parts in your hands and you are putting said engine under a microscope, so to speak. It's in the details. But you would need to be an engine builder or one who rebuilds engines to understand this. I am not speaking of a parts replacer. But one who line bores, grinds valves, turns cranks, decks cylinders. But again most do not do this kind of work to understand this.

    Tony

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    Registered User Autodidact's Avatar
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    Re: Removing thermostat from water cooled engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by N8053H View Post
    Thermostats were not removed for this reason. They were removed because they would stick, either closed or open. But they would stick. Then instead of replacing it gets removed. Again I wonder how I know this. You can tell a cooling system that has been plugged by contamination from one that has been left open. Everything about an engine and how it's been operated is shown once you have all the parts in your hands and you are putting said engine under a microscope, so to speak. It's in the details. But you would need to be an engine builder or one who rebuilds engines to understand this. I am not speaking of a parts replacer. But one who line bores, grinds valves, turns cranks, decks cylinders. But again most do not do this kind of work to understand this.

    Tony
    You forgot to address the other two causes that Dan suggested, the "collapsing bottom hose", or "some other common factor" such as the thermostat sticking closed and causing the overheating damage before it is taken out - or can you tell if the damage was caused before or after the removal of the thermostat?

    I think the main point of contention is the "water moves too fast" theory. Very few people have suggested that taking out the thermostat "cannot ever" cause damage. There is a big gap between "the thermostat was removed and then the engine was damaged" and "the damage was caused by the water moving too fast to transfer the heat".
    Say, did I ever tell you guys my hummus joke?

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