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Thread: Flying career for daughter

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    Registered User Little Scrapper's Avatar
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    Flying career for daughter

    Guys. Looking for some help.

    Tonight at dinner my 15 years old daughter Emily told us she'd like to pursue a flying career. Flying is a hobby for me so I'm out of my element here guys.

    What are the different paths for her? Send her to private pilot training before she graduates high school? Military? 4 years degree first? After? Never?

    Can somebody outline different paths a youngster might take?

    If we keep it civil I'll let her read the posts. Thanks guys!

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    Registered User rbrochey's Avatar
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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    I'm sure you probably know this one... https://erau.edu/degrees/aviation/

    I have a 39 year old daughter and a 13 year old daughter and a 11 year old daughter... my experience is be supportive of their dreams... they may change their minds several times before getting where they want to be... it's a journey, support and be there... that's the best we can do. IMO and congrats, you're doing a fine job

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    Registered User Little Scrapper's Avatar
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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by rbrochey View Post
    I'm sure you probably know this one... https://erau.edu/degrees/aviation/

    I have a 39 year old daughter and a 13 year old daughter and a 11 year old daughter... my experience is be supportive of their dreams... they may change their minds several times before getting where they want to be... it's a journey, support and be there... that's the best we can do. IMO and congrats, you're doing a fine job
    Father of a 15 yo, 12 yo, and 6yo. We had Oliver a little late but it's been fun.

    I was shocked at what she said. Straight A, total academic and we thought she was headed for college in business or finance. She told us tonight that won't make her happy. No desk and no cubical. She was pretty excited and we'll definitely support her. Emily is a fun girl who likes fun things, her and I are very close and I just want her to be happy.
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    Registered User rbrochey's Avatar
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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Scrapper View Post
    Father of a 15 yo, 12 yo, and 6yo. We had Oliver a little late but it's been fun.

    I was shocked at what she said. Straight A, total academic and we thought she was headed for college in business or finance. She told us tonight that won't make her happy. No desk and no cubical. She was pretty excited and we'll definitely support her. Emily is a fun girl who likes fun things, her and I are very close and I just want her to be happy.
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    I totally understand! My oldest got a Masters in music and my 13 year old wants to learn computer coding... go figure! But that's what we dad do, catch them if they fall and help them back up... sounds like you'll know what to do!

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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    Congrats Little Scrapper!
    Just wanted to recommend a group that I really enjoyed interacting with while I was learning to fly, the Civil Air Patrol (http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/). They do a lot of training for young cadets and even offer scholarships and other good things for people learning to fly. They can tell you more about it than I can, see if there's a chapter nearby. They are good folks, for sure.
    Hope that helps!

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    Registered User choppergirl's Avatar
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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    In about 10 years maybe she'll be where I am, watching EaaVideo.org instructional videos on homebuilding for 4 hours straight until her eyes bleed, with airplane parts in her living room... it's a bottomless pit of learning that never ends, with not a whole lot of actual flying or money making going on...

    Motorcycles, the gate way drug... .
    ( shiny new cylinder barrel )

    A+ student? Highest SAT? Rebel against the system and the mold? Ditch after first year of Ivy league college and buck becoming an investment banker Borg droid? Can't say I know anybody like that... *cough* *sputter*

    Only four careers in aviation are in demand: commercial airline pilots (big time demand), and to a much lesser extent... air traffic controllers, helicopter pilots (any), and AG crop duster pilots. All require big, deep pockets now to get into, which is why they are in demand, why the desperate need for them will exacerbate, and why they won't get filled... and why I'm not crying too many tears for them. The hiring companies want *you* to foot your own insanely costly training bill, and not sponsor you like in an apprenticeship program, or foot the bill for your training. And they still won't hire you after all that training unless you already have X years of experience already flying X type craft, they want already veteran pilots disenchanted with some other outfit (because veteran pilots crash less).
    Last edited by choppergirl; December 18th, 2016 at 11:33 PM.
    CHOPPERGIRL @ AIR-WAR.ORG ~ Flying with Christina
    My grandfather flew 171 combat missions in the P-38, P-39, and P-47; my dad was an air traffic controller and 170 pilot; my mom sold travel luggage to Mohamed Atta, the 9/11 hijacker mastermind; I'm restoring Dorothy, a Volmer Jensen VJ-24W motor glider I bought on eBay for $38, and Alice, a Chotia Woodhopper I bought on Barnstormers for $99. I'm in no hurry; doing it to fly, and to learn how to restore hopeless case ultralights.

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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    If she wants to be a pilot, she can get fantastic training in the military, and she'll be working beside some outstanding people. But--she has to want to be >in< the military. I had some friends who were far more interested in being pilots than in being USAF officers, and many of them did make it through their training and put in their 6 years after pilot training, but I don't know if they were happy.
    From a practical perspective, if she wants to be a pilot in the USAF or USN, she must get a commission, which means getting a 4 year college degree. She can get that degree at a service academy (no tuition, Dad!), or a civilian college (ROTC or OTS/OCS). If she wants to fly for the Army, she can become a warrant officer and will not need a 4 year degree (though most warrant officers eventually get one). Most Army pilots fly helicopters, but not all of them.
    IMO, unless she has a lot of time flying already, she doesn't know that she wants to do this with her life. She's in love with the idea of it, not the "it" of it. And there's all kinds of flying--those guys/gals flying regional jets and building hours/seniority as they hope for a shot in a big jet with a major airline--well, they aren't making much money and many are far away from the type of flying they dreamed of. So, if you can swing it, get her some experience in the air, and try to find a way for her to shadow some folks who are "living the dream" before she makes any irreversible decisions.

    "No cubicle, no desk"--no high school kid ever said "I can't wait to sit in a cubicle!" But, not to rag on a youth with their head in the clouds, that's a very superficial way of viewing the world. Not everybody gets to be a park ranger. And the guys/gals "sitting in the cubicles' aren't getting paid to sit, they are getting paid to do something. That might be creative work, it might be challenging work, and it might be something they enjoy. It's not about the office furniture. But a 15 year old doesn't know much about the working world--if they are anything like I was at age 15.
    Last edited by Vigilant1; December 18th, 2016 at 11:23 PM.

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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    I am a recently commissioned Air Force officer (non-flying), but am familiar with the rated (flying) career paths and can answer any questions she and you might have.

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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    Building an airline career is like getting a bachelors degree in time and cost. First 4-5 years at regional airline will making less than your plumbing apprenticeships. Military flying is like getting a Masters. Nothing insurmountable, but it is serious and the competition for the jobs means it is serious. Perks are some fool is paying you to fly around; minus is you dont get to go where you want, when you want, when at work. If going military, get her a private before she sees a recruiter. Lots of competition for military right off the bat; standing out will help. All civilian will be about time building; licenses are expensive but getting enough time to apply for a job is the hard part. She will have to pay dues, but again dues is flying. That is for normal flying jobs. Helicopters and cropdusters adds crazy spins to the normal. She is going to have to want it. 4 year degree cant hurt civilian, and will be apart of military for the most part..

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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    Appreciate all the responses. Being 15 is not always the easiest thing when starting to think about a future.

    As a dad I just want her to want to do something for the right reasons. I fell in love with plumbing after hating other jobs, been doing it ever since and I still love it, probably why I own my own business. The passion still exists because I did it for the right reasons I suppose. A lot of people hate what they do, that's not what I want for my daughter.

    We'll see how this develops. I will certainly update.

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    Registered User Victor Bravo's Avatar
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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Scrapper View Post
    Emily is a fun girl who likes fun things,
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    Based on the photographic evidence above, and by the authority vested in me by the entire worldwide aviation and homebuilt airplane community... I herewith confer upon Emily the official title of Little Speedster !

    There is reported to be a significant pilot shortage either here now or coming soon. So she may have good timing for a career as a pilot. Civil Air Patrol is one possibility; they have low cost flight training and the CAP is a fairly direct path toward continuing on to Air Force if she wants that. But CAP places demands on her time and requires some amount of participation in return for the flight training. It is one of several options, depending on her personality and her commitment to that whole lifestyle.

    Here in the SoCal area, we have a program called Aviation Explorers. They have scholarships and reduced cost flight training. Perhaps there is a branch (post) of Aviation Explorers in your area that could be relevant.

    The 99's (International women pilots' organization) has training scholarships, aviaiton career pathway and mentorship programs for young women pilots. DEFINITELY check out what is available in your area with the local or regional 99's organization. It will be a very good source of networking and mentorship opportunities for her.

    Since you're in Wisconsin, it would be well worthwhile to see what EAA HQ has available for informaiton and connections for young women pilots.

    START ahead of time by getting her into the Young Eagles program... because the moment she becomes a Young Eagle she gets a free SPorty's ground school course, all sorts of resources, her private pilot FAA checkride is paid for free, etc. etc. Very significant money savings.

    If you are clever about this, she can start studying free and onl ine materials in addition to the Sporty's thing. If she has the luxury of a little time (meaning she starts at a younger age), she can convert this time into a cost savings when it comes to classroom or "book" training.

    Significant money can be saved by her flying with you or others in your area as soon as possible. Although the time of course cannot be logged as instruction, if she gets some practice and learns as much as she can from others... it reduces the number of "full retail price, official" dual instruction. Same principle as the kid who has been driving the family farm tractors and pickups since he or she was 5 years old.... the cost of formal "driver training" is far less because the kid pretty much knows half or 2/3 of the driving skills already.
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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Scrapper View Post
    Appreciate all the responses. Being 15 is not always the easiest thing when starting to think about a future.

    As a dad I just want her to want to do something for the right reasons. I fell in love with plumbing after hating other jobs, been doing it ever since and I still love it, probably why I own my own business. The passion still exists because I did it for the right reasons I suppose. A lot of people hate what they do, that's not what I want for my daughter.

    We'll see how this develops. I will certainly update.
    I'm doing the same thing right now Scrap. I have a 17 y/o Sr. In high school who wants to fly airliners for a career. We are looking at all the options. A college aviation program may be the best route. The window of opportunity hasn't been this large since WWII. Depending on what happens over the next 4 yrs there may be more opportunities in the military but have to wait and see. Serving in the military will be primary, flying in the military is secondary. Make sure the priorities are correct if that route is being considered.

    I wanted to teach him at least to the private level and that may still happen but if he transitions to a university program at that point the only real advantage he will have is a few more hrs of flight time. I think the best way I can help is have access to a plane he/we can fly in addition to college because the race is to get 1500 hrs. Sooner the better.
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain

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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by TFF View Post
    Building an airline career is like getting a bachelors degree in time and cost. First 4-5 years at regional airline will making less than your plumbing apprenticeships.
    10 yrs ago, there were some turboprop 135 airlines paying $16k per yr. Today, one can get hired at a regional, pull >$60k in the first year and have a path to the major codeshare partners. Getting hired at a wholly owned regional is like winning the lottery.

    I don't know any craft apprenticeships that pay that kind of first yr wages but they dont have to invest as much in training either.
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain

    “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$hi+.” ― W.C. Fields

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    Registered User TerryM76's Avatar
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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    From all indications there is/will be a huge demand worldwide for pilots for several years. This is a perfect time for an individual to build time in order to get in that left seat eventually. If a short military career flying multiengined aircraft is possible the transition to civilian commercial flying would be easier and possibly quicker than trying to piece together enough hours privately. If money is not a problem there is always Embry-Riddle as well as other flight schools.

    Exciting times with major decisions and interesting options. One thing I keep trying to remind myself.......money is a replaceable resource and time is not. Spend time wisely and be smart in how you spend your money. Your daughter needs to be able to gain as much knowledge as she can about her interest in this career so find as many ways as you can to indulge that interest. I wish my parents had taken a stronger interest in what I wanted for my career but they didn't try to talk me out of anything either.

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    Re: Flying career for daughter

    Leaving aside the quasi-political discussion about the military's ultimate purpose, one necessity to having any chance of becoming an Air Force pilot or Naval or Marine aviator is to excel academically in high school. Being a varsity athlete would help.

    The more "macho" elements of the armed services may also be a very difficult for a woman. Sexual assault is a very real risk, possibly worse than anywhere in the civilian world (where it is far too common and far too often ignored by law enforcement and the judicial system: Google the Stanford swimmer for one example). There has been sworn testimony to the effect that base and unit commanders regularly suppressed sexual assault cases. (As an aside, every female veteran my wife met when she was a nurse with the VA said she was assaulted). It has taken a very long time for the military to become what is probably the least racist institution in the US; it will probably take longer to get rid of the misogyny.
    Last edited by Swampyankee; December 19th, 2016 at 12:29 PM.

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