Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 82

Thread: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

  1. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    845
    Likes (Given)
    157
    Likes (Received)
    245

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    Single Seat Sport license without a medical....sounds GREAT to me! I'd love to get a light sport license with a driver's license but the red flags that trigger over a failed medical 35+ years ago won't allow it. Something between Part 103 Ultralight and Light Sport still wouldn't allow me to take my wife, kids or friends for a trip around the patch, but it would at least open things up to have a bit more range and thrill than a basic ultralight. Make us train with a CFI in a light sport plane, or whatever is available for training us how to fly, and then slap on the single seat restriction.....fine by me!

    Lynn

  2. Likes rbrochey liked this post
  3. #17
    Registered User choppergirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    T̵o̵r̵n̵a̵d̵o̵ MiG Alley ★★★★★
    Posts
    772
    Likes (Given)
    166
    Likes (Received)
    310

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    Just raise the weight limit of FAR 103 to 350, or 450 or whatever fits a bunch of small homebuilt planes into it, and there you have it. No licence required. Planes can be built a little safer, and with dual cockpit, and those that were overweight that you needed a pilots licence for before, now you don't. Go ahead and click buy on that fat little impractical homebuilt plane you found on ebay that weights 290 lbs, that before, was a pariah.

    If you need a licence to run, but not to walk, would creating a licence to jog... get more people... jogging? Creating licencing requirements does not get more people into it. I myself don't want to go anywhere, take any tests, stand in any line, pay any money, or have any doctor poking and prodding me. Not for a little card in my wallet that just gives them an excuse to fine me if I don't have said card.

    Raising weight limits that then allowing dual seat ultralight just might help get a few fair weather consumers back into flying as a recreational sport (but paraplaning did that already). Talked to death already though. Killing dual seat ultralights really snuffed out ultralights, and yet people will tell you not to touch FAR 103 and its weight limit, lest some new politicians see it as a forgotten loophole, and rather than expand it, pull the plug on it.

    A bird or cloud doesn't need a licence to fly, neither should I.
    CHOPPERGIRL@AIR-WAR.ORG ~ Dorothy ~ Alice ~ Flying with Christina ~ Unchained Melody ~ Titanium ~ Follow Me ~ Facebook ~ Shenanigans
    My Six Swords of Freedom: disobedience defiance resistance revolution sedition & sabotage
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. By definition, those that obey, must be slaves.

  4. Likes rbrochey, gtae07 liked this post
  5. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Right here in front of my computer
    Posts
    2,071
    Likes (Given)
    304
    Likes (Received)
    337

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    The regs point out in black and white how to do training in a single seat. But you still must have dual time.

  6. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Upper midwest in a house
    Posts
    3,258
    Likes (Given)
    329
    Likes (Received)
    1026

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    which reg is that?
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain

    “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$hi+.” ― W.C. Fields

  7. #20
    Registered User Daleandee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    400
    Likes (Given)
    66
    Likes (Received)
    275

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Scrapper View Post
    I'm a firm believer in market pressures, in other words, the market will decide where it goes from here. Until the manufacturers and service providers get pinched hard enough the innovation in training to lower costs simply are not on the radar. Basically, there's enough people with money to keep aviation companies happy.

    The only other means of change, beyond market pressure, is lobbyists or massive groups coming together to force change. This requires lots of passionate people that all agree. I don't believe that exists.

    So, until that happens the road to affordability will be an individuals ability to have grit and determination.
    I agree with your thoughts and believe that the trigger for this to happen, in whatever form that it would take, is wrapped up in these three items.

    The markets i.e. the competition of those that provide the goods and services to those of the smaller aviation community will be of major importance in growing the customer base. As you have pointed out, there must currently be enough business to keep them happy.

    Lobbyist or groups demanding or striving together for a change. Isn't that the role of AOPA, EAA, and all of these other groups that beg of us of dues and money on the pretense that they work for us? I don't want to sound as if I'm disparaging these groups as that's not my intent but just pointing out that they would be an important driver in the developement of such a program.

    The government will always be part of this as they will (welcomed to or not) insert themselves for our safety or their control. Many have noted that they don't think this is a great idea because with such testing it would be hard to know if the applicant really understands all they need to. It could be added that before the applicant went to do their oral, written, and flight test that they have a three hour sign-off with a CFI showing that they are prepared for such testing. This would at least give a professional time to access the applicants skill level.

    As for the applicant having spin training ... as much as we may scream about it, it is not now required for Sport, Recreational, or Private tickets. I sometimes even find pilots that had instructors that were afraid to take students through a complete nose break in stall training. They call it "stall awareness" to let the airplane get a bit loose and tell the student, "OK ... never go there!"

    As I noted in the beginning, I don't have the answers. The idea here was not to point out all the reasons it can't work but the way that it can. In my management style, one of the prerequisites I try to use when someone came to me with a complaint was that they also provide what they thought was the solution. I say this because we as humans have the wonderful ability to find fault and say something can't be done or isn't being done correctly, which is an easy and fun thing to do, but then we don't have a better idea offer.

    But Scrapper is correct ... unless it's something the masses or the market forces drive forward, it will never happen.

    Dale
    N319WF

  8. Likes Little Scrapper liked this post
  9. #21
    Registered User Little Scrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,565
    Likes (Given)
    1520
    Likes (Received)
    1234

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    Quote Originally Posted by Daleandee View Post
    I agree with your thoughts and believe that the trigger for this to happen, in whatever form that it would take, is wrapped up in these three items.

    The markets i.e. the competition of those that provide the goods and services to those of the smaller aviation community will be of major importance in growing the customer base. As you have pointed out, there must currently be enough business to keep them happy.

    Lobbyist or groups demanding or striving together for a change. Isn't that the role of AOPA, EAA, and all of these other groups that beg of us of dues and money on the pretense that they work for us? I don't want to sound as if I'm disparaging these groups as that's not my intent but just pointing out that they would be an important driver in the developement of such a program.

    The government will always be part of this as they will (welcomed to or not) insert themselves for our safety or their control. Many have noted that they don't think this is a great idea because with such testing it would be hard to know if the applicant really understands all they need to. It could be added that before the applicant went to do their oral, written, and flight test that they have a three hour sign-off with a CFI showing that they are prepared for such testing. This would at least give a professional time to access the applicants skill level.

    As for the applicant having spin training ... as much as we may scream about it, it is not now required for Sport, Recreational, or Private tickets. I sometimes even find pilots that had instructors that were afraid to take students through a complete nose break in stall training. They call it "stall awareness" to let the airplane get a bit loose and tell the student, "OK ... never go there!"

    As I noted in the beginning, I don't have the answers. The idea here was not to point out all the reasons it can't work but the way that it can. In my management style, one of the prerequisites I try to use when someone came to me with a complaint was that they also provide what they thought was the solution. I say this because we as humans have the wonderful ability to find fault and say something can't be done or isn't being done correctly, which is an easy and fun thing to do, but then we don't have a better idea offer.

    But Scrapper is correct ... unless it's something the masses or the market forces drive forward, it will never happen.

    Dale
    N319WF
    Just throwing a question around, does the bulk of the industry that the EAA and AOPA truly represent (the money makers) lose or gain if something like this would happen.

    The answer to that question is the answer to the thread question. Imagine what would happen to the industry if the ultralight weight changed to 400 pounds. It would represent millions in lost revenue because 400 pounds could pretty much get you a "real" airplane.

    It will never happen. It's about money.

  10. Likes Topaz liked this post
  11. #22
    Registered User rbrochey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Gallup, New Mexico USA
    Posts
    794
    Likes (Given)
    446
    Likes (Received)
    350

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    "It will never happen. It's about money." Always. It's all related. If there's more money in diminishing something than regulating or encouraging it... guess which one wins? Like automation increasing the bottom line, kiss the jobs (and the ability to own a plane) goodbye. So the costs of ownership goes up income disparity continues (and it is now likely to get even worse) people who would like to fly will have to settle with being stuck to their sofas staring at one screen or another...

    One solution might be that aviators ban together and create their own financing for each other... create a pool of resources not dependent on a declining world.

  12. #23
    Registered User Winginit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    416
    Likes (Given)
    97
    Likes (Received)
    118

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    ...
    Last edited by Winginit; December 12th, 2016 at 01:34 PM.




    Everything I post is just my misguided personal opinion !
    Look for Torque and you will find HP !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woLzazkIc8A

  13. #24
    Registered User BBerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    7,386
    Likes (Given)
    1259
    Likes (Received)
    1113

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    EAA won't do anything. It has been 12 years since EAA pushed through Light Sport and not a single one seater has passed certification under Light Sport standards.
    It's like asking Honda to build another two seat car like my 91’ CRX, not gonna happen.

    Big organizations grow and disregard the low fruit.
    You will need a new groundswell from the masses. EAA would probably stop the effort, if they could. If they can't they will buy it out.

  14. #25
    Registered User D Hillberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    very low low low earth orbit
    Posts
    975
    Likes (Given)
    264
    Likes (Received)
    356

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    You need a better economy where the 'fun money' returns in the budget.
    It's all about the money.................

  15. Likes Pops, Topaz liked this post
  16. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Right here in front of my computer
    Posts
    2,071
    Likes (Given)
    304
    Likes (Received)
    337

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    Quote Originally Posted by Turd Ferguson View Post
    which reg is that?
    It's spelled out right here:

    https://www.faa.gov/training_testing...-s-8081-29.pdf

    You will find this on page 9-10 of this book.

    Applicants for a Sport Pilot Certificate may elect to take their test in a
    single-seat aircraft. The FAA established in 14 CFR part 61, section
    61.45(f) specific requirements to allow a practical test for a Sport Pilot
    Certificate only. This provision does not allow a practical test for a Flight
    Instructor Certificate or Recreation Pilot Certificate or higher to be
    conducted in a light-sport aircraft that has a single-pilot seat.

    With certain limitations, the practical test for a Sport Pilot Certificate
    may be conducted from the ground by an examiner. The examiner must
    agree to conduct the practical test in a single-seat aircraft and must
    ensure that the practical test is conducted in accordance with the sport
    pilot practical test standards for single-seat aircraft. Knowledge of all
    TASKs applicable to their category/class of aircraft will be evaluated
    orally. Single-seat sport pilots shall demonstrate competency in those
    specific TASKs identified by a NOTE in the AREA OF OPERATION for
    a single-seat practical test and any other TASKs selected by the
    examiner. Examiners evaluating single-seat applicants from the ground
    shall evaluate only those TASK elements that can be accurately
    assessed from the ground.
    The examiner must maintain radio contact with the applicant and be
    in a position to observe the operation of the aircraft while evaluating the
    proficiency of the applicant from the ground.
    Sport pilots taking the practical test in a single-seat aircraft will have the
    limitation, “No passenger carriage and flight in a single-pilot seat aircraft
    only” placed on their pilot certificate, per 61.45(f)(3), limiting their
    operations to a single-seat light-sport aircraft and no passenger carriage
    will be authorized.
    Only an examiner is authorized to remove this limitation when the sport
    pilot takes a complete practical test in a two-place light-sport aircraft.
    This practical test may be conducted in the same or additional category
    of aircraft.
    Upon successful completion of the practical test, the limitation will be
    removed, and the sport pilot is authorized to act as pilot in command in
    all categories of light-sport aircraft that he or she has a make and model
    endorsement within a set of aircraft to operate. The limitation can also
    be removed if the sport pilot completes the certification requirements in
    an aircraft with a minimum of two places, for a higher certificate or
    rating.

  17. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Upper midwest in a house
    Posts
    3,258
    Likes (Given)
    329
    Likes (Received)
    1026

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    Quote Originally Posted by N8053H View Post
    It's spelled out right here:
    That's testing, not training. The PTS is a testing document.

    You said: "The regs point out in black and white how to do training in a single seat."

    I'm not aware of any regs covering single seat training.
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain

    “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull$hi+.” ― W.C. Fields

  18. #28
    Registered User bmcj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Fresno, California
    Posts
    11,645
    Likes (Given)
    6324
    Likes (Received)
    3961

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    The closest you are going to get to single-seat self-training has come and (for the most part) gone... it was Part 103. The FAA doesn't want self-training any more that we would realistically advocate it. Almost every single one of us would discourage someone teaching themselves in an ultralight, and that is the one place where it is legal.

    You can advocate self-training all you want, but it ain't happening. No one really wants it, and if it did happen, it would flood the media with stories of accidents that that would ultimately be harmful to general aviation.

    Freedom of flight in uncontrolled airspace works because we have rules and a training requirement. Don't mess with that.

  19. Likes Topaz liked this post
  20. #29
    Registered User BBerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    7,386
    Likes (Given)
    1259
    Likes (Received)
    1113

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    The title of this thread is probably worded wrong.
    What he suggested in post #1 was this:

    "The concept is rather simple in design. It would allow a person to receive a low speed (less than 87 knots - the FAA likes that number) single seat only, no medical pilots license with training of the applicants choice. Much like learning to drive where a person is taught by their parents, grandparents, a friend or even a professional driving school with an instructor."

  21. Likes bmcj liked this post
  22. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Right here in front of my computer
    Posts
    2,071
    Likes (Given)
    304
    Likes (Received)
    337

    Re: Self Taught Pilot's License - Single Seat Sport

    Quote Originally Posted by Turd Ferguson View Post
    That's testing, not training. The PTS is a testing document.

    You said: "The regs point out in black and white how to do training in a single seat."

    I'm not aware of any regs covering single seat training.
    No where does it say your training cannot be done like the testing in a single seat. But you do need dual time. I know a CFI who does this type of training.

Similar Threads

  1. SOLO - single seat sport plane
    By Rienk in forum Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: February 23rd, 2016, 05:02 PM
  2. Ultralight flight hrs counting toward sport license?
    By gibby mcfender in forum The light stuff area
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: August 6th, 2012, 11:52 AM
  3. Converting two-seat glider into single-seat motorglider
    By cluttonfred in forum General Experimental Aviation Questions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: August 5th, 2010, 09:26 PM
  4. Sport License or Recreational License
    By FlyLane in forum Rules and Regulations / Flight Safety / Better Pilots
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: January 28th, 2010, 01:26 PM
  5. Pilot license
    By dwestcessna in forum General Experimental Aviation Questions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: December 10th, 2007, 10:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •