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Thread: Any Ragwing Projects here?

  1. #61
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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    I'm wondering if anyone has put together a recent price list to get an idea of what the plane will cost to build in today's dollars.

    1. Airframe:
    A. Wood
    B. Glue
    C. Metal fittings

    2. Covering:
    A. Fabric
    B. Glue
    C. Paint

    3. Engine and prop :
    A. Engine and gearbox
    B. Prop
    C. Fuel tanks

    4. Landing gear:
    A. Wheels
    B. Brakes

    I realize that the list is no where near complete....some people will still need to gather proper tools and a build table...etc.
    Of course,prices will vary depending on your scrounging abilities.....but I was curious what everyone has in mind for their projected cost of the plane ready to fly.

  2. #62
    Registered User dcstrng's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    Don't think you really want to know the cost except in general terms -- for me the critical cost is, what does it take for me to stay reasonably busy for the next 2-3 months... In the scratch-build world, I've seldom found money to be a serious issue anyway (and me and my family are as poor as church-mice...), at least for me the projects move too slowly. The "all-up" cost is a big deal in the kit-build world and the cost of the smallest kit is the threshold, right-of-passage cost... but building from scratch it is almost impossible to find something that can't be afforded and by the time you get to another part/assembly you have enough set aside that, and so on... That's my usual state of financial disarray...

    Notwithstanding, your list is orderly and I'd suggest that the larger items (the type we generally don't construct from scratch -- wheels, brakes, engine, probably prop, instruments, maybe fuel-tanks, etc., etc...) are the ones I have to budget for -- generally I put them on my "watch-out-for" list and as they pop up on garage sales, craigslist, eBay, Barnstormers, whatever, I try to snatch them... but I'm not particularly good at scrounging -- a good friend of mine seems to steer me to the bargains, so another set of eyes can be invaluable.

    For instance you might rescue a very low-time 503 Rotax for $1500 if you keep your eyes open, but an all-up 670 will probably eat $6K-7K out of your piggy-bank (depends how close you are to your next tax refund...). You can of course save money in the long run by buying material in bulk, driving down to your supplier and picking up the whole bunch to save shipping -- but I've seldom been that orderly in my thinking -- usually I'll order enough to get through the next phase and just eat the shipping from Wicks, WagAero, ACS, Online Metals, Aircraft Supply or whatever... anyway, add up your costs from the retail suppliers, then fold up the tally, hide it and mentally add at least 50%...

    PS: you can never have too many paper catalogs... I find that most retailers websites are iffy to navigate from time to time; and occasionally the search features don't pick up everything unless you know the stock/item number already... I try to order just enough doodads from all the usual suppliers so I have a steady stream of free catalogs/fliers to compare with the Net...
    Last edited by dcstrng; January 1st, 2016 at 02:20 PM.

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  4. #63
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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    When it comes to scrounging I usually have the luck of the Irish....always seem to find what I need because I start looking for it well in advance and then I'm just patient and let it come along eventually.
    There have been instances that time is a factor and I have just taken the hit by throwing cash at the problem....it happens every now and then.
    I was just wondering if anyone had actually priced all of the airframe materials.....have the plane setting on the gear ready to cover.....wood,glue,metal for fittings and covering material.
    Wheels,engine,prop,fuel tanks,instruments and paint not included in the ( on the gear ) estimate....

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    A friend told me he had estimated $5500 for everything minus the engine, with a bare bones panel.

    So far I am thinking he is close but I also think that this can be shaved. Barnstormers and judicious shopping. To date it seems Wicks has the edge for the wood that I need, and can do best by cutting most of it myself.

    Also I know that I can beat Wicks and others by going through the stacks of some yards myself which would be major savings, so that is what I am going to do.

    Wish I could do that with T 88.
    Jake Levi

    We are all in this together.

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    I'm thinking that estimate is a bit high.....won't know until I actually start putting together my list of materials.
    I do know this....a friend of mine has built several Team Zmax's and he generally has right at $800 in them....setting there ready to cover,paint,install engine and instruments.
    I realize the Stork is bigger,but $5,500 sounds a little much to me....I may be wrong though.

    I actually got a chance to set down with the plans the other night.
    When I was printing them off of the computer,I'm surprised the printer didn't give me the option to load cocktail napkins or cardboard.
    Needless to say...I'm disappointed in the quality of the plans.
    I'm a numbers type guy,give me a work order with hard numbers and I will build anything you can possibly dream up and put on that paper.
    I started to lay out the plans in a more clear and orderly fashion,but I dropped the Etch-A-Sketch in the process and will have to start over.....lmao
    Yes,I have a sense of humor....No,I'm still not impressed with the plans.

    I've been checking out the messages on the Yahoo group and I have seen many people complain about the videos being useless....I'm not sure if they received bad copies of the footage of if the actual footage is pretty worthless.
    Anyone want to chime in on this subject?

    Kevin

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    It will really depend on quality of wood and what you can scrounge and what processes used. $5500 is not a bad guess if wood is coming from Wicks or ACS. If you can substitute good. I would think 4 sets of the large bottles of T-88 would get it built. Took 1.5 for my friends Legal Eagle wings. Covering is going to cost between 600- $3000. Uncertified fabric, latex house paint and 2 q of glue would be down at the bottom; 2-3000 if all Stits or Dope. Wheels and brakes will cost $500 for UL style new; 1500 for airplane. Engine is best guess.

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    Registered User dcstrng's Avatar
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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    It is my understanding from the Yahoo group that some of the previous vids were “unusable” (I think, that was/is the term). I don’t know, but I ordered five RagWing DVDs mid-December and received them pronto – there is a few stretches of one or two minute with VHS noise (for those old enough to remember that) typical of off-tracked home-movies, but in general , all of the DVDs I received (Stork and Special) were very useable and enjoyable to watch – indeed I’m on my second go through them now that I know what to look for… I guessed on the Yahoo forum that perhaps a different duplicator is being used now, because I certainly have nothing but good to say about mine (other than noted) and my playback equipment is vintage Walmart…

    I agree $5500 seems a tad rich for material, but so much depends on the builder and all the mysterious left-over junk in one’s shop… and size of aircraft has almost no bearing I’ve found out… if you have a few spares laying around you can go out to the shop and knock out a flying surface with little additional outlay other than fresh epoxy or acetylene, but with nothing on the shelves I find myself over-buying and coming home (or UPS delivering) with a gazillion bucks worth of airplane parts… depends on the builder.

    Plans – guess it depends on one’s expectations; how much does one expect for $25. Zenith plans are typically $400-$500, are they 20 times better… they are very good (and I have several), but twenty times I doubt it… Sonex plans are priced north of $700 and although they are a work of sophisticated, intricate complexity, I really like Roger’s better – I find the older plans like Cougar, Tailwind, Sonerai (and RagWing) and similar have about the correct detail for me and Roger gives more than that. The Zippy Sport plans are also in that “feels right to me” category, but the drafting is a work of art in itself. For what Roger was trying to do for amateur aviation decades ago, my opinion (may not be worth much) is he provided very reasonable value. My ideal set of plans is typically a dozen pages, I find – airfoil pattern, fuselage layout in 3-view, controls, wing schematic and few pages in construction peculiarities – Roger’s do that and typically provide additional pages of instruction… These aren’t CAD so far as I can tell and don’t expect FEA – sweat and stubby pencil it looks like to me, but could I build from them, you bet -- as always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    Been looking at the plans and I do not see a "Scale" for reference to enlarging the plans....am I overlooking it?
    What enlargement is required to wind up with a full size rib pattern?

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    • I ordered his Parasol plans in 1998 for $75. I expected a learning curve as it was my first attempt. I can read plans with the best, but it took me a month of studying just to figure out his perceived outcome. Once I got it figured out, I ordered the plywood kit he sold. That took 2 months. I went to Sun n Fun with most of hardware list and ordered everything from Wicks while there. I think I had about $1800 in it, mostly in plywood, polyfibre, dope, paint and hardware. I had a running rotax 447 and prop already. It flew ok. For a first timer with a very limited budget, it's probably as good a choice as any if you can handle woodworking and have access to some very straight grain wood. All wood was Southern yellow pine that I hand picked from the local lumber yard and his aircraft plywood. Sold it a few months later.

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    This may seem a bit off subject but I think it's a fitting question for anyone starting a RW19/20.....
    Does anyone have a good layout/plans for a table that's adaquate for building the Stork?

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadProfessor8138 View Post
    This may seem a bit off subject but I think it's a fitting question for anyone starting a RW19/20.....
    Does anyone have a good layout/plans for a table that's adaquate for building the Stork?
    I had a large woodworking shop as that was my main hobby, so I built a table with two full sheets of 3/4 plywood over a basic frame. 4x16 is big enough too handle almost any wing. Once I got it built, I used a laser level on tripod to shim 10 legs to where the table is dead level to keep from building a twist in the spar and rib assembly. I glued the wood shims in place under each leg and did not move the table during any assembly.

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    Jake,

    I purchased my RW20 plans 15 years ago.

    I had spoken to a number of the guys on the old Ragwing list

    I see you are on the Yahoo group as well.

    I will send you a PM too

    Regards

    Pezz

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    Has anyone come up with a definitive answer as to the weight difference between stick built ribs and routed ribs?
    I would love to know this one.......
    Kevin

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    I dont know about these, but a Skybolt biplane routed ribs are 7 1/4 lbs more than the built up ones as a set.

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    Re: Any Ragwing Projects here?

    If you hold true to the original demensions of the stick and gusset and use 3/8 birch ply with no gussets it would probably weigh less with no gussets nor glue. Youcould leave a little flare out where each gusset would normally be. 3/8 ply is a couple of mm shy of 3/8.

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