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Thread: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin N View Post
    The most fun airplanes are 100 hp and under anyway. Just leave Sport pilot alone.
    Yep, let's see how that goes. With this new "BasicMed" procedure in place ("no more need for a Class III medical!" Just a need for an impossible-to-get note from a doctor that signifies he/she has examined you and you are fit to fly), the FAA will next say that making this a requirement for operating an LSA is a safety improvement, and not an unreasonable burden at all ("we're not requiring a Class III medical exam!")
    There are a lot of people new to Washington making promises to reduce needless government intrusion into people's lives. Maybe it's time to give them this failed "reform" as an opportunity to show us what they are made of.
    And maybe EAA and AOPA will keep pressing this time, rather than caving in early. Compared to the early drafts of the PBOR legislation, what we really got was virtually nothing--the FAA won.

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilant1 View Post
    ... And maybe EAA and AOPA will keep pressing this time, rather than caving in early.
    I wouldn't hold your breath. The AOPA website is touting this as a "victory": https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...medical-reform

    The EAA is being a little less "warm and fuzzy" about it, but is also saying this is "the culmination of years of work by EAA and AOPA": http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-a...al-reform-rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilant1 View Post
    ... Compared to the early drafts of the PBOR legislation, what we really got was virtually nothing--the FAA won.
    Ayup. The actual "satisfy a medical requirement" part didn't change at all. They just pushed the liability burden off onto the doctors. Now, when or if someone does crash due to medical reasons, nobody can point a (lawsuit) finger at the FAA for having reviewed the medical results and approved the Third-Class. Instead, the lawsuit is pointed at the private doctor who certified that the pilot was good to fly. FAA: "Hey, we don't review those anymore. It's not on us!" Private doctors aren't stupid. They understand liability. I imagine finding one who is willing to certify your flight status is going to be a bit of a challenge, regardless of your actual health status.

    Also, the FAA will no longer have to spend the labor and money to review medical applications, so they can move that funding away to higher-profile activities like airlines and endlessly developing "NextGen" air traffic control.

    For the FAA, this is the best kind of win-win.
    "If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." - Henry David Thoreau

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    Excellent point. You're going to get "I'm not qualified" from your GP, which translates as, "I don't want to take on the liability for this." Which means we'll be going to the regular flight docs anyway.

    Other than saving the FAA a bunch of money in processing third-class examinations, I don't see how this really changes anything at all.
    Here's one possible silver lining: Today a 40+ YO pilot has to get a Class III exam every 2 years. This new "BasicMed" option allows the same person to self-certify and get an exam/note from any non-AME doctor every 4 years. Clearly, the FAA is at least admitting that the required interval for any medical certification for this pilot is every 4 years, so they should modify the interval to 48 months for those choosing to get a "real" Class II exam from an AME. Otherwise, they are saying the exam from the AME is less stringent than one from a random doctor, dentist, osteopath, etc (all of whom are allowed to sign the new form, depending on state rules regarding what qualifies as a "physician.")

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    Registered User Hot Wings's Avatar
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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    § 61.23(c)(1)
    while operating under section 2307 of
    FESSA to comply with all medical
    requirements or restrictions associated
    with his or her U.S. driver’s license.

    ^
    ^
    Any restrictions on
    a driver’s license (e.g., corrective lenses,
    prosthetic aids required, daylight
    driving only) also apply under this rule.


    In my state one common restriction is the requirement for a right hand review mirror. Wonder what the STC for one on a C150 would look like?...
    Conventional wisdom and practices yield conventional results. If that is good enough for you:
    Problem solved.

    "--and pompous fools drive me up the wall. Ordinary fools are all right; you can talk to them, and try to help them out."
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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilant1 View Post
    Here's one possible silver lining: Today a 40+ YO pilot has to get a Class III exam every 2 years. This new "BasicMed" option allows the same person to self-certify and get an exam/note from any non-AME doctor every 4 years. Clearly, the FAA is at least admitting that the required interval for any medical certification for this pilot is every 4 years, so they should modify the interval to 48 months for those choosing to get a "real" Class II exam from an AME. Otherwise, they are saying the exam from the AME is less stringent than one from a random doctor, dentist, osteopath, etc (all of whom are allowed to sign the new form, depending on state rules regarding what qualifies as a "physician.")
    True. But it doesn't help the people PBOR was supposed to help in any way at all.
    "If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." - Henry David Thoreau

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    One question... does it meet the mandate that congress imposed on the FAA for implementation? If not, then the PBOR sponsors might be able to mandate additional change.

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Link to the original bill:

    https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/s...114s571rfh.pdf

    Can't say if it's the same as the one actually passed.
    Conventional wisdom and practices yield conventional results. If that is good enough for you:
    Problem solved.

    "--and pompous fools drive me up the wall. Ordinary fools are all right; you can talk to them, and try to help them out."
    Richard P. Feynman

    “Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”
    Frank Zappa

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Wow, it's amazing the predictive abilities that are found here. Something that doesn't take effect for another 4 months is already a complete and miserable failure.

    So those that got a special issuance and don't need to repeat the whole process again every 2 years, that's a huge failure to them?
    People who are otherwise healthy that never have to see another AME and can take care of this with their normal doctor on any visit in the next 4 years, that's a failure too?
    Who took the survey of doctors to get the 100% refusal rate on the medical exams? Some will refuse, sure, but it's going to be far from universal. They already have malpractice insurance. There has not been a flood of lawsuits against the FAA for medical issues on pilots. There may have been some in the past, but it only happens in very rare cases. If doctors were that adverse to liability, they would've already closed their practice for the thousands of things they can currently be sued for.

    Just because you didn't get everything you want doesn't mean that a step in the right direction was a failure, or that it helps no one. There are tens of thousands of pilots this benefits, this group may not include you, but the rest of us are thankful for some progress.

    Give it at least a chance, people.

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Quote Originally Posted by 12notes View Post

    Give it at least a chance, people.
    Yes, it's better than we had, but it's still far more "oversight" than is warranted by the hazard of leaving the medical fitness decision up to the pilot. We already accept that obligation every time we fly between medicals.

    A properly rated pilot cruising along in a 6000 pound plane with 5 passengers at 250 knots is probably far less of a danger to those of us on the ground than the multitude of 1 ton pickup trucks with a tired or tipsy driver running down the highway at the legal limit with a camp trailer hooked on behind.
    Conventional wisdom and practices yield conventional results. If that is good enough for you:
    Problem solved.

    "--and pompous fools drive me up the wall. Ordinary fools are all right; you can talk to them, and try to help them out."
    Richard P. Feynman

    “Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”
    Frank Zappa

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    AvWeb is running an online poll to get feedback from the community on this reform. It doesn't take long to fill out. I let 'em know, alright . . .

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    It's just like that victory we had when the FAA conceded, that no, we're not allowed to build airplanes in hangars. A great win for us all!

    The more of the fine print on the medical reform nonsense I read, the angrier I got. We gained nothing. It really requires a special talent to take a mandate such as "get rid of the the third class medical" and deliver this kind of utter garbage.

    I have already heard on other forums (fora?) that some doctors have refused to sign these things. And compared to an AME, what does the average doctor know about flying and what it takes ? I will try to find a regular AME and get my third class as usual. I am lucky that I don't really have any problems getting a medical, but I know many pilots who got screwed by this yet again.
    "Aeronautical engineering is highly educated guessing, worked out to five decimal places. Fred Lindsley, Airspeed."

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Quote Originally Posted by PTAirco View Post
    It's just like that victory we had when the FAA conceded, that no, we're not allowed to build airplanes in hangars...I will try to find a regular AME and get my third class as usual. I am lucky that I don't really have any problems getting a medical, but I know many pilots who got screwed by this yet again.
    It goes without saying that this will take an education for the normal general practitioner unless they happen to be a pilot. My doc will sign off for high-school sports physicals on teenagers but so far hasn't agreed to "recreational scuba." I can't imagine that anyone has tested this reg change yet, but getting my doc to sign off on anything label "flight" will be an uphill battle for sure -- I'm planning on staying LSA; not because I can't pass a 3rd-class, but because my bureaucratic tolerance is about maxed out.

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Quote Originally Posted by 12notes View Post
    Just because you didn't get everything you want doesn't mean that a step in the right direction was a failure, or that it helps no one. There are tens of thousands of pilots this benefits, this group may not include you, but the rest of us are thankful for some progress.

    Give it at least a chance, people.
    Here's the point: initially, the alphabet groups wanted to eliminate the class III medical and replace with self-certify. That was rejected by Wash. early on as no elected official wants a medically unfit pilot plowing into the proverbial hospital or schoolyard. Six yrs ago a group of AME's got together and offered up a CDL type medical package that had a 95% chance of passsage. AOPA specifically rejected that idea. They were still all or nothing- egos prevailed. 10 yrs drags on and they get a program that is no better and possible worst than the CDL medical. Now they are tooting the victory horn and broadcasting what a great advocate they are to GA! Send in your membership dues today! The fail is with how it's been presented. Yes, I hope some people benefit but this was hardly a fight worth 10 yrs of effort.
    “The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.” - Mark Twain

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    Maybe we can change the thread title?
    "3rd Class Medical Reform Effectively Killed by FAA. AOPA and EAA Tell Us We Should Be Happy.". It is possible this sop is the best that could have been done-- last year. We have a new Congress, a new executive branch, and that includes a new Secretary of Transportation over the FAA. AOPA and EAA need to get back out there and get the reg that we were told was coming. No, this is no longer "the best we can expect." AOPA and EAA are 180 degrees out of sync with the political zeitgeist now. Fix this, make the system work.
    Last edited by Vigilant1; January 22nd, 2017 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: 3rd Class Medical Reform still alive...

    The ALPA and the AMA lobbied against the "driver's license" medical. They had lots of credibility with the congresscritters who modified the original bill.


    BJC

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