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Thread: Deleting posts

  1. #31
    Moderator autoreply's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonaut View Post
    Well I have to add my two cents here...

    I think the moderating here is a bit heavy handed...I moderate a couple of yahoo groups which I started...with a modest but fairly active membership of about 300...including a few distinguished names in the biz...

    I have only ever had to step in once in all that time...and literally thousands of posts...and that was in the case of blatant personal attacks and name calling...from basically a couple of junior members who had no creds whatsoever and whose disrespectful behavior could not be excused...
    All the homebuilder groups that got larger fell apart in personal arguments. This is the only large forum for homebuilders that's usually respectful and constructive, all other places burned down in endless personal arguments. You can't compare moderating a small group to HBA, that's literally a Columban Cri Cri to a 747. You mention several hundred members. HBA far over ten thousand. Several thousand posts on your group? HBA has far over 100,000. We probably moderate far less as you do in that Yahoo group. It's simply that we have hundreds of times more activity...

    On a small forum, you can do things rather leisurely. But that's plain impossible on this scale. If you truly want unrestricted arguing, the only place where you will find that are small fora. Big fora simply got big because many people like the lack of flamewars, argumenta ad infinitum, personal attacks, namecalling and so on.

    Yes, some people will leave. If they can't handle a grown-up discussion; so be it.
    Last edited by autoreply; May 10th, 2012 at 04:08 AM. Reason: Clarified #2 sentence, since it could be interpreted otherwise.
    Kennis vermenigvuldig je door het te delen.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Look I don't like people putting words in my mouth...

    If you are going to respond to my quotes then do not mangle the obvious intent of my words...

    I never said I am for name-calling...or PERSONAL arguments...

    What I said is that technical debate and ARGUMENT is an essential part of the process...that is my real world experience...

    When somebody puts up an idea... that idea has to survive tough scrutiny in order to move forward...often there are a number of competing ideas...each with merit...

    Tempers sometimes flare...even unkind words are exchanged...I've even seen it come to blows...and even been involved in such myself...but that's how ideas get hammered out...

    Granted that level of intensity is not needed on discussion board where there is really nothing of consequence at stake...but the point is that technical arguments will arise...and in actuality they are necessary and healthy...

    Now if you want to make some kind of tea garden where everyone sings Kumbaya then that is your prerogative...

    Anyway...I see moderators stepping in here all the time...Just the other day I expended considerable effort including working through a fair bit of basic math...in order to figure out what is reality and what is not when it comes to solar power for flight...

    A worthwhile subject...

    And then a few crybabies who did not even participate in this suddenly start crying "break it up..."...

    The moderator wades in and unceremoniously shuts it down...

    not kosher......not respectful to people like myself who have invested some honest and well meaning effort in the discussion...

  3. #33
    Registered User Head in the clouds's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by autoreply View Post
    All the homebuilder groups that got larger fell apart in personal arguments. This is the only large forum for homebuilders that's usually respectful and constructive, all other places burned down in endless personal arguments.....................simply got big because many people like the lack of flamewars, argumenta ad infinitum, personal attacks, namecalling and so on.

    Yes, some people will leave. If they can't handle a grown-up discussion; so be it.
    I don't think moderators should start yelling, otherwise I'll be the next to leave also...

    HBA got big because it was well managed, so was the Roman Empire come to that.

    I've read most of the content on HBA and I think HBA has had some of the best contributors, it has also lost some of them.

    From what I've deduced from my reading on this site, for the long term benefit moderators need to watch the incoming newbies and perhaps advise them with a standard notice about decorum and their need to read the rules and the previous threads before allowing their enthusiasm to overwhelm them.

    As far as I am concerned the standard of moderating on this site is exceptionally high and I absolutely approve of the 'stay on topic' rule. It seems to me that a reasonable leeway is allowed in that regard but following that I want to see a discussion return to focus or else I won't bother to be a part of the discussion in the first place.

    Or we'll be constantly faced with - by the way have you seen the price of hamburgers in Kiribati lately...

    Lighten up everyone, full moon's almost over

  4. #34
    Registered User Head in the clouds's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonaut View Post
    .........I never said I am for name-calling...or PERSONAL arguments......

    I've even seen it come to blows...and even been involved in such myself.........

    not respectful to people like myself ...


    What?

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    Registered User 4trade's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    This forum have very clear and understandable rules. Moderators will follow those rules and all members should respect it too, if signing in as volunteer.....i don´t think anybody here is forced in?

    My personal opinion is that moderators do extremely good job, and this forum is absolutely great, so THANK YOU!
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur

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  7. #36
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Head in the clouds View Post
    What?
    Do you actually have a point to make...?

  8. #37
    Registered User Head in the clouds's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonaut View Post
    Do you actually have a point to make...?
    Yes, sorry, I thought I made it clearly enough.

    Like all of the others, I value your opinions greatly but you write in double spaced, single sentence paragraphs, which much resemble those of anyone who seeks to lecture.

    Yours are, as I tried to demonstrate by only partially paraphrasing you, subject to misinterpretation. Attention to specificity would benefit you, and being less aggressive, (why do you need to state you've been involved in coming to blows over discussions? Big deal, so what, this is a forum, not a bar room brawl) would serve you even more so - imho

  9. #38
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Head in the clouds View Post
    Yes, sorry, I thought I made it clearly enough.

    Like all of the others, I value your opinions greatly but you write in double spaced, single sentence paragraphs, which much resemble those of anyone who seeks to lecture.

    Yours are, as I tried to demonstrate by only partially paraphrasing you, subject to misinterpretation. Attention to specificity would benefit you, and being less aggressive, (why do you need to state you've been involved in coming to blows over discussions? Big deal, so what, this is a forum, not a bar room brawl) would serve you even more so - imho
    I put space in my sentences because it makes it easier to read...

    Have you ever seen some of these 1000-word monographs...?...they literally make my head hurt by the time I finish reading them...

    Too bad because some of them have very good content...

    That is why I have adapted my writing style to make things easier for you and others...sorry it bothers you...

    And this spacing somehow implies lecturing...how so...?...specifically please...

    And what is this supposed to mean, specifically..."attention to specificity would benefit you..."

    Look I'm not here to pick fights or waste my time on nonsense...

  10. #39
    Registered User Head in the clouds's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonaut View Post
    I put space in my sentences because it makes it easier to read...

    Have you ever seen some of these 1000-word monographs...?...they literally make my head hurt by the time I finish reading them...

    Too bad because some of them have very good content...

    That is why I have adapted my writing style to make things easier for you and others...sorry it bothers you...

    And this spacing somehow implies lecturing...how so...?...specifically please...

    And what is this supposed to mean, specifically..."attention to specificity would benefit you..."

    Look I'm not here to pick fights or waste my time on nonsense...
    You probably did not intend it to be so but your post was aggressive to the moderators who are only doing what their guidelines require and therefore it was inappropriate. I would rather not spend my time on nonsense either, however I will give you the courtesy of a further reply since you request it.

    When you post here you are not addressing young children who cannot concentrate beyond a single line, or a single sentence. If you choose to write in the style I previously described, then you write in a way which makes your readers feel as if you are lecturing them, and in a way which indicates that you think they cannot absorb more than a sentence, well spaced from any other sentence, at a time. Most of us who visit here are actually capable and fairly literate adults.

    Occasionally I do come across 1000 word monologues and I even read one today that would be about 3 pages long without any punctuation at all. It was all good content and simple to read by pasting it how it suited me, most of us can manage that, but we're not talking about reducing everything to double spaced single sentences are we...

    I used specificity in a sentence where you started to ramble on about getting involved in violence whilst your subject was actually about keeping control (moderating) a forum. I think my comment was appropriate.

    I am well aware that you don't intend to be antagonistic, which is why I said that specificity would benefit you. To that end I commend and thank you for your very well thought out contribution to my thread on aspect ratio. You obviously spent a lot of time to think it through and your explanation was very good.

    Regards,

    Alan
    Last edited by Head in the clouds; May 10th, 2012 at 07:15 AM. Reason: removed comment that may be taken as antagonistic

  11. #40
    Registered User Jay Kempf's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonaut View Post
    I put space in my sentences because it makes it easier to read...

    Have you ever seen some of these 1000-word monographs...?...they literally make my head hurt by the time I finish reading them...

    Too bad because some of them have very good content...

    That is why I have adapted my writing style to make things easier for you and others...sorry it bothers you...

    And this spacing somehow implies lecturing...how so...?...specifically please...

    And what is this supposed to mean, specifically..."attention to specificity would benefit you..."

    Look I'm not here to pick fights or waste my time on nonsense...
    I find it harder to read. I makes it look like bullets even if the sentences are related in what would be a cohesive paragraph. Just one opinion. Content on the other hand gets all kinds of accolades from me.

    I have two large monitors and am always doing more than on thing at once. So I have lots of screen real estate and tend to have large windows on a high-resolution screens so for me font and size are always a problem anymore. Cell phones are especially problematical and drive me to wearing glasses to read anything. Technology being a good thing?
    Jay K.

    VT USA

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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Head in the clouds View Post
    You probably did not intend it to be so but your post was aggressive to the moderators who are only doing what their guidelines require and therefore it was inappropriate. I would rather not spend my time on nonsense either, however I will give you the courtesy of a further reply since you request it.

    When you post here you are not addressing young children who cannot concentrate beyond a single line, or a single sentence. If you choose to write in the style I previously described, then you write in a way which makes your readers feel as if you are lecturing them, and in a way which indicates that you think they cannot absorb more than a sentence, well spaced from any other sentence, at a time. Most of us who visit here are actually capable and fairly literate adults.

    Occasionally I do come across 1000 word monologues and I even read one today that would be about 3 pages long without any punctuation at all. It was all good content and simple to read by pasting it how it suited me, most of us can manage that, but we're not talking about reducing everything to double spaced single sentences are we...

    I used specificity in a sentence where you started to ramble on about getting involved in violence whilst your subject was actually about keeping control (moderating) a forum. I think my comment was appropriate.

    I am well aware that you don't intend to be antagonistic, which is why I said that specificity would benefit you. To that end I commend and thank you for your very well thought out contribution to my thread on aspect ratio. You obviously spent a lot of time to think it through and your explanation was very good.

    Regards,

    Alan

    Well that is pure nonsense...

    And I see I am dealing with someone here who is not worth the trouble...

    To infer that writing in single sentence paragraphs is "lecturing" is quite bizarre...and then to go on and spin out of that a whole yarn about how I must think I'm "dealing with children" and how I have "aggression..."...I mean it is just bizarre...and certainly without any grounding in reality...

    Not to mention not very polite to make such accusations that are...well...fantastic...

    And I certainly did not "ramble" at any point...I pointed out that in the real world of the aircraft design and testing arguments about technical matters are part and parcel...sometimes they even get quite hot...

    That is what happens when there is a lot at stake...and if you have a bunch of headstrong personalities...plus throw in a fair bit of pressure...well that is what can and does happen...

    I don't know what your line of work is...maybe disputes never happen there...good for you...

    Bottom line is I stated my displeasure about the heavy handed moderating here and that is my opinion...you don't even have a dog in this race...you've jumped in here for what reason exactly...?

    Oh yeah...to fling a bunch of slurs my way about "lecturing," "aggression" and other nice words...

  13. #42
    Registered User Toobuilder's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonaut View Post

    ...What I said is that technical debate and ARGUMENT is an essential part of the process...that is my real world experience...
    While I’ll agree that animated discussion is a valuable component of problem solving and learning, that is entirely different than arguing - often in complete ignorance of data to the contrary - in an attempt to “win” at all costs. A recent “animated” discussion comes to mind where a member with very limited experience (as it turns out) tried to educate more experienced members on the finer points of piston engine power management. Dispelling technical guidance, real world experience and lacking a basic understanding of piston engine theory, this member attempted to argue his point based on the exalted position of “being taught that way” by his instructor. Very compelling stuff for a technical forum. How about the passionate, yet absurd “argument” that formal engineering is somehow a handicap, while the backyard fabricators are the enlightened ones?

    I view this forum as a resource for technical ideas – not a social club. In that light, I’ll stick with the current flavor of “heavy handed” moderating any day.

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  15. #43
    Registered User Jay Kempf's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
    While I’ll agree that animated discussion is a valuable component of problem solving and learning, that is entirely different than arguing - often in complete ignorance of data to the contrary - in an attempt to “win” at all costs. A recent “animated” discussion comes to mind where a member with very limited experience (as it turns out) tried to educate more experienced members on the finer points of piston engine power management. Dispelling technical guidance, real world experience and lacking a basic understanding of piston engine theory, this member attempted to argue his point based on the exalted position of “being taught that way” by his instructor. Very compelling stuff for a technical forum. How about the passionate, yet absurd “argument” that formal engineering is somehow a handicap, while the backyard fabricators are the enlightened ones?
    There are people here that I learn from and have developed some respect for, people that are ummm "entertaining," and people that are just way off base in this "forum." But it seems to be a great forum.

    Technical endeavors are going to have participants that are academics, practitioners, incompetents, blowhards, seasoned professionals, school of hard knocks types, etc... Within each of those categories there are going to be subcategories. There can be an engineer with advanced degrees that is incompetent and a person from the school of hard knocks that is virtually a self-taught Phd level contributor. Going after a title like engineer is just uninformed as is going after a seasoned mechanic practicing what one would in one way be able to categorize as engineering skills. The truth is that life is what happens while you are trying to describe it and put it in categories. Anyone with basic math skills can tell who says sooth and represents experience and who barks up trees for their own entertainment. It need not turn antagonistic but that is just a component of human nature. Normally a small subset of any extended group ends up spoiling it for the majority. I have seen it happen in distributed internet groups before. It will probably happen again. If enough solid participants leave the heart and soul go out of what's left of the group. That is a hard line to walk for the moderators. If successful the heart and soul stays but a few noses are bent out of shape. If not, well, let's hope we don't get there.
    Jay K.

    VT USA

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  17. #44
    Registered User Himat's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    Doing it all wrong to some, I'll jump in late. Collecting some experience.

    If someone deletes all their post I might understand it, but I still find it annoying as the references then are gone. And as long as the discussion is technical there is something to learn of both the right and wrong. Experience is to have made the mistakes yourself, wisdom is to learn from others mistakes.

    As for the moderators deleting post's I understand it, but it leaves voids in the same manner as when posters delete their post's. Might I suggest that moderators if possible rather use the lock function to pause a discussion quicker rather than have to delete posts afterwards?

    At last, someone mentioned a thick skin is needed participating in online forums, he was right. Another is a sense of when to argue and when to not. Life, martial art's and academia have all taught me that. If you are to chose, pick your fight's careful. It's easy to get bold behind an anonymous avatar, but it's equally easy to slip away from an argument if you want to. Even if right, there is not always the right time to hammer it.

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  19. #45
    Banned George Sychrovsky's Avatar
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    Re: Deleting posts

    I have been here for almost ten years, there has been only one and one only time I had engaged in criticizing somebody else’s design and building work, the reason what I was seeing was so bad I just couldn’t watch it and stay quiet. I was promptly accused of personal attacks and threatened to be kicked out of the board if I post any more of it by the people running this place.
    This member is now dead as he has killed himself in one of his contraptions.
    I am still here and post my own things occasionally when I feel like but I have no longer any interest in helping anyone here.
    In the end you get what you deserve.
    Last edited by George Sychrovsky; May 10th, 2012 at 11:44 AM.

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