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Thread: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

  1. #1
    Formerly Unknown Target Inverted Vantage's Avatar
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    Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    LiveLeak.com - Bagram Airfield Crash 29 APR 2013

    Word is that the cargo on this 747 (several MRAPs, I saw on reddit) broke free and went backwards, shifting the plane's CoG rearwards and initiating an uncontrolled power on stall on takeoff.
    Last edited by Inverted Vantage; April 30th, 2013 at 04:12 PM.

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    Moderator Topaz's Avatar
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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    Link is dead.
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    Formerly Unknown Target Inverted Vantage's Avatar
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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    Try refreshing, works for me. It seems to go up and down.

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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    "Horrific" is the appropriate word for this. Posted here for those with link problems:


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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    What is a MRAP?

    I assume it is heavy- this would explain the sudden loss of control and horrific consequences.

    Such a tragic waste.

    RIP

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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    The video worked fine for me.....Amazing how the plane seemingly stopped dead in mid air for a few seconds before plunging to the ground. Shame.

    BTW - An MRAP is a series of mine resistant military trucks in use by the U.S.

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    Registered User bmcj's Avatar
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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    Didn't realize it until later, but this is the very same National Air Cargo 747 that I have been driving past here in Fresno on my way to work for the last couple of weeks. It was temporarily based (parked) here up until it departed for Afghanistan.

    I've heard lots of speculation to the cause. Some reports cite weather, but to me it did not look like a weather problem. My take from seeing the video is either a massive rearward cargo shift or a control (elevator) problem.

    I feel sorry for the crew and their families.

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    Registered User Jay Kempf's Avatar
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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcj View Post
    Didn't realize it until later, but this is the very same National Air Cargo 747 that I have been driving past here in Fresno on my way to work for the last couple of weeks. It was temporarily based (parked) here up until it departed for Afghanistan.

    I've heard lots of speculation to the cause. Some reports cite weather, but to me it did not look like a weather problem. My take from seeing the video is either a massive rearward cargo shift or a control (elevator) problem.

    I feel sorry for the crew and their families.
    It almost has to be a cargo shift although the likelihood is minimal with all the safety procedures there are to keep that from happening. Something must have looked right but not been secured and passed all the security checks and rechecks. It is hard to believe that either weather or an electrical or hydraulic control failure could have caused that. The appeared to be controlling the aircraft. Flaps were still in takeoff mode and the elevator seemed active. If there was a major cargo shift on a steep climb out there isn't much they could have done to save the airplane. Even if it hadn't pancaked where it did and made another climb it would have just stalled again lower the second time. So tragic to see something go that wrong. They don't let low time people fly these missions and the 747 isn't exactly a single pilot machine so plenty of eyes on the check lists. I am sure the captain was fighting all the way to regain control. He managed to get the wings level and it started to level out as it gained airspeed on the down leg. But that could have been with full down elevator.
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    Moderator Topaz's Avatar
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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    Not long after the airplane comes into frame, you can see the left wing drop and then he must've picked it up (correctly) with right rudder, but then carried the rudder too long and stalled the right-hand wing as it came back. Understandable if he was in a panic about an inability to get the nose down. Hell, I did that a couple of times in slow-flight training. Once the right-hand wing goes, the drag rise and (possibly) continued right-rudder kicks her around hard into an incipient right-hand spin, shortly before both wings let go and it just stops flying.

    Had to be a cargo shift or some kind of massive pitch-control failure and, overwhelming precautions notwithstanding, my bet's on the former. If this is a hoax, whoever made it has a heck of a lot of piloting knowledge.
    "If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them." - Henry James Thoreau

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    Registered User BBerson's Avatar
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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    A DC-8 cargo plane hauling live cattle crashed on takeoff out of Anchorage. (1977)
    They found the pilot was under the influence of alcohol.
    Event Details

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    Registered User Holtzy3's Avatar
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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    i regret to say my bosses son who is a national airlines 757 captain was very good friends with the crew on board and it was a sad day indeed around the hanger yesterday. His son's best friend from college was sitting next to the pilots girlfriend when the word came. very sad day. the aircraft was told to be carrying an EXTREAMLY heavy load even for a 747 and speculation by the team owner (my boss) is that the cargo shifted on take off and changed the CG of the aircraft.

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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    Topaz, I think you could be wrong, only making assumptions here but the left wing drop seems to me part of the high AOA recovery procedure : Full elevator down, use trim if possible, reduce thrust, and if necessary bank to one side, which if it was the Captain flying, to the left makes sense, also at that point they might have realised it was the only thing left to do.. I don't see an initial yaw from right rudder application.. let's see what the investigation tells us..
    Poor guys RIP I've seen them quite a bit here in DXB..
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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    The crew apparantly made a call about cargo coming loose, just before this happened:

    Crash: National Air Cargo B744 at Bagram on Apr 29th 2013, lost height shortly after takeoff
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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    It's hard to draw any conclusions from that video. By the time we see it appear, I'd guess their airspeed is near zero. Reports indicate that someone on the crew made a radio call saying they had a load shift. Since the gear was still down, it's likely some of the cargo broke free during takeoff rotation. Just one of those vehicles sliding towards the tail would easily put the aircraft in an unrecoverable situation. These type aircraft have a vast cg range due to the entire stabilizer changing it's angle with the trim function. The trim is set before takeoff as appropriate for the calculated cg. The elevator itself has limited authority. Of course, the stabilizer trim has limits too. So, even if the pilot could have immediately trimmed full nose down (it doesn't move that quick) and used full nose down elevator, a rapid load shift of any magnitude would still easily make the aircraft uncontrolable/unrecoverable. There's no need to critique pilot actions if they were handed an uncontrolable aircraft--may they rest in peace.

    BTW, we used to teach rolling towards 90 degrees of bank during a nose high upset recovery to aid in getting the nose down but current Boeing guidance is to level the wings and push forward (among other things with power and trim). Unfortunately, without altitude and a way to remedy the cause of the upset, there's not much chance of recovery. IMO, most of what we are seeing in the video is just the gyrations of an aircraft on a ballistic path with no flying airspeed. I'd guess the investigation will focus on why the load shifted.

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    Re: Horiffic 747 crash at Bagram Airbase

    People are mentioning this crash having happened on 4/29, yet on the live leak site at the bottom of the video it says 2/1/2013......Anybody else catch that? I haven't heard anything on the news about this crash, so am wondering now as to its validity......If it were a hoax it is the best photography I've ever seen.

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