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Thread: Synergy Aircraft

  1. #16
    Registered User cheapracer's Avatar
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by hogheadv2 View Post
    How many truly great things came from "being safe and conservative". .
    Umm, the entire aviation industry?


    Quote Originally Posted by hogheadv2 View Post
    The way I see it John has all ready Changed the way of GA, setting new efficiency goals and standards for all new production aircraft.
    Spock says ...

    Synergy Aircraft-spockvulcan.jpg

    .... Ilogical! - Nothing has been changed, those claims can only be made for a vehicle, regardless of field, that has been operated and demonstrated it's perfomance.
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  3. #18
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by captarmour View Post
    came across this video




    Point is anything can be made to fly at small scale.

    I'm not a hater by the way, just like to live in a world of reality, but must be starting to look like one!

  4. #19
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    like to live in a world of reality, but must be starting to look like one!
    Reality depends person himself. There is as much "reality" as people in this world, and in my perspective, you bend laws of physic on your "reality" what come to engine technology, even point where laws of physic disappear. Is this one of your reality or your´s opinion?

    Engine technology "reality" is here: $5,500 aircraft?

    John, your plane design somehow show best or worst of how people are build inside. I think your design looks great, and i hope all good for it. Aviation need people who dear to be different, and future will tell us how great was your approach to this. Keep on going!
    Mantra´s like: " it is too difficult" or "it is impossible" is true only for those people who use it...

  5. #20
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by hogheadv2 View Post
    How many truly great things came from "being safe and conservative". The way I see it John has all ready Changed the way of GA, setting new efficiency goals and standards for all new production aircraft.
    Most of what is claimed by the Synergy team is dubious at best from my point of view. Many statements reflect a clear misunderstanding (or complete lack of understanding) of the subject at hand, regularly use a literal (unrelated) quote from a technical article and as such, I think there's nothing "revolutionary" or even remarkable about the project, except for the amount of hype. In the old, long topic (here) my technical reasonings and those of many others can be found.

    The last build update I can find is March '12, 13 months ago... Changed the way of GA? Certainly. Future (truly groundbreaking) projects will be looked upon a bit more cynical/suspicious and many of them are already struggling to find sufficient money...
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by autoreply View Post
    Most of what is claimed by the Synergy team is dubious at best from my point of view. Many statements reflect a clear misunderstanding (or complete lack of understanding) of the subject at hand, regularly use a literal (unrelated) quote from a technical article and as such, I think there's nothing "revolutionary" or even remarkable about the project, except for the amount of hype. In the old, long topic (here) my technical reasonings and those of many others can be found.

    The last build update I can find is March '12, 13 months ago... Changed the way of GA? Certainly. Future (truly groundbreaking) projects will be looked upon a bit more cynical/suspicious and many of them are already struggling to find sufficient money...
    The project at least is able to stir up a heated discussion. This is not that strange as the “known facts” get challenged. Especially when it look like quite a few of the participants are not aware that quite some of the “known facts” are simplifications and generalisations of empirical data. Even where there is a formal derivation of a formula expressing “known facts”, usually quite a few assumptions and simplifications are done during the derivation. Everyone that read trough the previous thread should bear that in mind.

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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    The Wright brothers dared to challenge conventional wisdom, pursued a dream amidst terrible criticism, and put us on the road to what we have now. Other people did the same in other fields of science and technology. Solving serious problems and giving us many things we take for granted not realizing how we got them. The story of how the cause of Yellow fever was discovered was one occasion where a doctor was finally willing to listen to someone who had been ignored and scoffed at by everyone else because he was an uneducated fool so they thought.

  8. #23
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Himat View Post
    The project at least is able to stir up a heated discussion. This is not that strange as the “known facts” get challenged. Especially when it look like quite a few of the participants are not aware that quite some of the “known facts” are simplifications and generalisations of empirical data. Even where there is a formal derivation of a formula expressing “known facts”, usually quite a few assumptions and simplifications are done during the derivation. Everyone that read trough the previous thread should bear that in mind.
    That's an interesting point. It's also one of my bigger problems with Synergy. Several of their claims seem to defy physics. Newton (induced drag) and the 2nd law of thermodynamics for example (boundary layer suction). Other claims are simply too vague (whirling air, really, talking about not understanding the subject at hand...) or too ridiculous to be more than a provocation.
    I'd rather have discussions and heated debate over projects that don't defy physics, but do ground-breaking work.
    Some more understanding (and less reliance on too simplified ideas) of non-planar wings, normal laminar foils and intersection drag for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by reubenT View Post
    The Wright brothers dared to challenge conventional wisdom, pursued a dream amidst terrible criticism, and put us on the road to what we have now. Other people did the same in other fields of science and technology.
    That's exactly the point. The Wright brothers did do fundamental research, understood it and applied that to design a flying aircraft.
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  9. #24
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by reubenT View Post
    The Wright brothers dared to challenge conventional wisdom, .
    Good on them, they also did things progressively, stepping up a bit at a time.

    BTW, their design was also less than satisfactory, their literal wing warping is used by nobody.

  10. #25
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    The early Wright design also resulted in the first U.S. passenger fatality.
    I don't think the Wright's would have considered building a five seat airplane as their first design attempt for a new idea concept.

  11. #26
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by BBerson View Post
    The early Wright design also resulted in the first U.S. passenger fatality.
    In fairness to them that was an unforeseen mechanical failure (prop shattered) and nothing to do with craft design.

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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    John has his own linguistical manner of stating the true and intuitive in a way that confuses most everyone. I like it, but intriguing riddles and delicate personal descriptions allow me to enter a mindscape more than just plainer perscriptive constructive verbaige. There's a great deal of dilligence behind the boggling briefs, but that's what seperates the succesful eccentrics from creative clutzes. Incidentally there's no intrinsically alternative science, only a technological expression of independently coalessing particularrs.

    Still trying to figure out if it's a tailess biplane, wing empannaged monoplane, singularly connected tandum wing, owe well, we can all agree that at least it's a powered glider....

  13. #28
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by autoreply View Post
    ...The last build update I can find is March '12, 13 months ago...
    This is my biggest concern about the project. Apparent progress on the build seems to have ground to a halt. I'm following their Facebook page and while there are a lot of posts giving thanks to donors and new team members, I don't see any significant progress on the aircraft in the last year. I'm going to leave the rest of it to a "wait and see" attitude. It'll all come out, good or bad, when the airplane flies. Until then, we can speculate and debate all we want, but none here except John himself has any real information on the aircraft. Like you, AR, I have some doubts, but I'm willing to suspend them until the aircraft itself proves me right or wrong.

    John, if you're looking in, a thought: While I realize the need to recognize contributors, your quietude on actual progress on the aircraft itself can certainly give the wrong impression. A regular progress update, no matter how small, would go a long way towards supporting the PR aspect of your project.
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  14. #29
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderousMountain View Post
    John has his own linguistical manner of stating the true and intuitive in a way that confuses most everyone. I like it, but intriguing riddles and delicate personal descriptions allow me to enter a mindscape more than just plainer perscriptive constructive verbaige. There's a great deal of dilligence behind the boggling briefs, but that's what seperates the succesful eccentrics from creative clutzes. Incidentally there's no intrinsically alternative science, only a technological expression of independently coalessing particularrs.
    You're starting to sound like him...
    Then comes syn entropy and don't you let out Feng shui on all of this "Art"
    Most of the people i respect are...well down to Earth.
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  15. #30
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    Re: Synergy Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by autoreply View Post
    That's an interesting point. It's also one of my bigger problems with Synergy. Several of their claims seem to defy physics. Newton (induced drag) and the 2nd law of thermodynamics for example (boundary layer suction). Other claims are simply too vague (whirling air, really, talking about not understanding the subject at hand...) or too ridiculous to be more than a provocation.
    I'd rather have discussions and heated debate over projects that don't defy physics, but do ground-breaking work.
    Some more understanding (and less reliance on too simplified ideas) of non-planar wings, normal laminar foils and intersection drag for example.
    I did read a few of the other threads about the Synergy aircraft and as far as I remember I there were no points that did defy physics. But that was open to interpretation, and as you say, the claims where vague. At the moment we have to wait and I do hope that the airplane takes to the air and provide flight test data that get published.

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