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Thread: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

  1. #16
    Moderator addaon's Avatar
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    Yep. The RR500 is pretty much Allison sized, though; the RR300 would be a new market.

  2. #17
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    A turbo prop is a gas turbine engine(jet) with a reduction gear box
    to the prop.I flew behind one in the DeHaviland turbo beaver.They are
    smooth running but more fuel efficient at higher alt.Follow manual closely
    on start up or risk damage due to wet start.

  3. #18
    Registered User hogheadv2's Avatar
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    The "little" ones that you may have seen in odd projects.... motocycles , [duhh wait 2-4 seconds and that thottle will let off] are take offs for over hours for aircraft, as are the stupid 200mph boats and pulling tractors. May have a freshen up but not a true spec. rebuild.

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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    there is the garret/ allied signal jfs100 its used as a jet engine starter for a few military jets. with modification to the govenor to allow it to be throttled, switching the generator from ac to dc, eliminating the push button start feature and its electronics, and 2 seperate oil systems for the gear box and the power turbine with pumps, filters, and coolers. they can be run in continuous duty. they make 95-100hp 300tf lbs of torque and can produce 450lbs of thrust when atatched to a prop drive and the correct prop. there is a guy doing this work and currently flying it on a zenith.
    Garrett JFS 100-13A Turboshaft engine (Zodiac powerplant - kit airplane)

    most converted apu's are not up to the forces of flight. but the jfs100 is the closest thing to a real turboshaft engine out there. turbine shaft is supported by 2 ball bearings, has a gear drive off the turbine shaft that drives the accessory drive that drives the fuel pump, oil pump, alternator and govenor. And since it is designed as a jet engine starter it is also designed to be self contained. self contained meaning in the event of a failure it has scatter sheilds inside to keep all the parts contained in the engine as not to enter the main jet engine it is used to start.

    im hoping to put one on the vision I am building. turboprop will be soo nice.

  5. #20
    Registered User D Hillberg's Avatar
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    ChecK with History, The Solar & AiResearch (APUs) Have been used in small aircraft as primary power plants in the late 50s early 60s, McDonnal, Del Mar,Enstrom ect; Now the Helicycle, Turbine Exec have had a good run with the Solar T-62 T32 -The JFS 100 needs mods to run in a small applacation, Where as the Solar is pritty much stock in the Exec, The Helicycle has a new gearcase to save weight.

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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    Quote Originally Posted by slociviccoupe View Post
    im hoping to put one on the vision I am building. turboprop will be soo nice.
    This may change your mind...

    Turbine pros and cons in Homebuilts

    In particular note the implications and consequences of operating an APU outside of its intended duty cycle
    Last edited by fadec; December 12th, 2011 at 04:36 PM. Reason: sp.

  7. #22
    Registered User D Hillberg's Avatar
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    200hp Turboprop for RV's & others-356403.jpg200hp Turboprop for RV's & others-img_1053.jpgThe debate is mute, The "APU"s in Question other than the JFS 100 , Have been used in Helicopters,The Enstrom had the AiResearch 36-55 in the 60s long before the Rolls Royce powered 408,A Boeing 502 was used in Kamans then used in 707 & 727 for APUs,The time life & Cycles are documented,The (APU) Power plant when installed has no "Exciting vibration" problems that you would have wihh a piston engine. Either a Generator load or an input quill it works-100s of Jet Execs and Helicycles are out flying from 1993 to now.

  8. #23
    Registered User Tom Nalevanko's Avatar
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    Moot; mute; save the chocolate moose. What are the APUs in question, please? This is so confusing. Perhaps we can have a table or a list? Thanks

  9. #24
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    As far as conventional aircraft application is concerned, history clearly proves that APU derived powerplants are grossly inefficient and engineering nightmares. Yes, it's quite attractive to think about that sound in the nose of your airplane - that's of course the primary reason behind so many attempts over the years but, as the market shows, despite hundreds of thousands spent, no one's made it to the showcase. Personally I've visited six or seven of these programs over the last twenty years, each with a good story and seemingly good engineering talent, only to see them fade away in less than two years after start and in each case, nothing to show in the end except very expensive garbage. In short, Andrew Russel's overview of the issues at hand (referenced link above) is an accurate one and one that should be heeded before embarking on a similar effort.

    Even the higher end certified product development programs have documented cases of temperature and vibratory issues when the turbine products are used in applications other than for which they were originally developed - some years back I got to look over the proverbial shoulder of Soloy in their development of several of their turbine products. Despite their extensive experience and expertise, the programs stretched out for years, solving the very issues mentioned in Mr. Russel's discussion. The program was an eye-opener for me in that it clearly showed that despite expectations, the turbine does have vibratory issues (torsional and otherwise), especially when used in conjunction with a drive, couplings and conventional propeller.

    I don't know enough about helicopter applications so I'll leave that to others but so far, despite some very serious efforts, no one to my knowledge has come even close to providing the light aircraft industry with a dependable turbine that's based on an APU, generator/starter or some other non-flight article.
    "To live is to learn; to learn is to live" (author unknown)

  10. #25
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    200+ Helicycles sold,60 flying,5000 hrs on fleet-Rotorway Jet Exec 100+ sold, 40 flying. Also RotorMouse,Elisport ,Angel,Revolution,Mosquito. Turbines are here and will stay, In Fixed wings you have The Wolter , Pratt & Whitney , Rolls Royce , Solar will soon be on the list Just Keep it simple Stupid. The turbine luskum project failed because they Didn't K.I.S.S. it.

  11. #26
    Registered User Dan Thomas's Avatar
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    Quote Originally Posted by D Hillberg View Post
    200+ Helicycles sold,60 flying,5000 hrs on fleet-Rotorway Jet Exec 100+ sold, 40 flying. Also RotorMouse,Elisport ,Angel,Revolution,Mosquito. Turbines are here and will stay, In Fixed wings you have The Wolter , Pratt & Whitney , Rolls Royce , Solar will soon be on the list Just Keep it simple Stupid. The turbine luskum project failed because they Didn't K.I.S.S. it.

    A simple turbine is even more inefficient than a complex one. All turbines burn plenty of fuel, but the only efficient models are those found on really large airplanes. As turbines get smaller they burn more per HP produced, with the model jet engines being real fuel pigs.

    Because of the fancy alloys and high rotational speeds they will never be cheap unless someone figures out how to employ ceramics, and even then they won't come close to the cost-effectiveness of the piston engine. The rich homebuilder can afford a turbine; the rest of us have to make to with recips. We can talk turbine, but talk doesn't power airplanes.

    Turbines will stay for a very few reasons: They are reliable. They are light. They are powerful. They last a long time. But all of that costs a heap of money. Unless there is profit in having a turbine, even a commercial air operator can be bothered with them.

    Dan

  12. #27
    TFF
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    The only thing bad about the Solar APU turbines like in my friend's Helicycle is they use almost as much fuel as a RR250 in our company Enstrom 480B. I does make the Helicycle much safer than the original piston setup. The other plus with turbine is it will eat just about any liquid fuel if tuned for it. Your only going to get about half the flight time over a piston though. Another friend is trading up from their SR22 to a TBM 750; bigger plane for sure, but their cruse fuel burn will be from 14 gph to 55 gph. That is a big change in the fuel bill and the plane is really flying the same mission.

  13. #28
    Registered User D Hillberg's Avatar
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    The solar burns 13 GPH ,The PT 6 40 odd gallons per hr ,The RR 250 22 gal per hr. PT 6 -3 DF 90 GPH +. Helicopter Applacations

  14. #29
    TFF
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    Re: 200hp Turboprop for RV's & others

    My friends Helicycle has the 3 tank setup and has about 1 hour 10 min of fuel. It does spend most of its time hopping around and not in cruse, so average burn is higher. Good for local missions ; he usually does 2 30 min flights a day on a tank. Our 480B hovers at 27 gph and can cruse at about 20. We do a lot of reduced power utility work with it at less gph. That TBM planning number is 55gph; it does 250+ kts, so it does make up in ground.

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